powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate  

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

I believe the powder coated plate is thinner.. have you adjusted ypur Z height for the new plate?

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Yeah I've done that by about 0.1mm (for reference, my powder coated plate is 0.7mm - I have just measured the PEI sticker sheet and it's 1.2mm, so that probably is the answer). I'll try dropping it some more and report back.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

I believe the powder coated plate is thinner.. have you adjusted ypur Z height for the new plate?

This

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Mine works absolutely amazing, only had an issue with EPa-CF, needed glue on the textured pei to stay after the first layer, otherwise, great adhesion, and love that the prints can be picked up off the plate after cooling.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

I have had one of the prototype boards for a few months and this is the one before they made the current version. With it I noticed that the live z is really touchy with this one even just a little closer to the surface after hitting that "right" height has had a impact of prints sticking good vs prints sticking right. Another thing I noticed is that if you pop prints off before the bed fully cools prints tend to sometimes not stick as well on the next print but this is normally solved just by wiping the bed with IPA and I use a microfiber cloth when I do this and I normally don't have any issues with prints sticking overall.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

I've tried a variety of z-adjusts now and this is absolutely the answer. It's not as simple as adjusting for the thickness of the sheet though since the sensor is seeing the steel and not the PEI and the thickness of the PEI is what's changing.

Working very well now. Thanks.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

I've found the textured sheet slightly harder to dial in. The first layer can look great when the nozzle is too high. This only really shows up in printing a single layer test print.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Great thread here! I'm doing research on the sheets and getting ready to order my own first Prusa MK3. I realize this is a beginner question and I apologize for that, but I didn't see a clear answer on this when I searched. I know the original smooth sheet that came with Prusa printers required some EXTENSIVE steps to replace the PEI layer if damaged (like removing a print before it cools), and a lot of people tend to use aftermarket sheets & PEI replacements.

I'm not as sure on what advantages the powder coated steel sheets offer though - does it still require similar steps to replace PEI layer down the road? Or due to the texturing, does it NOT require those steps, but rather a combination of keeping the powder coated sheet clean and getting the z height just right so the print sticks properly?

If it doesn't require replacing that PEI glue layer, yeah I think I'm willing to wait 5-6 weeks for shipping on that! 😎

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

I don't believe the PEI on a powder coated sheet is replaceable since it is powder coated. It's applied as an electrostatic powder and then baked down into a tough coating. If you damage the coating it would be time to replace the sheet. On the PEI sticker sheets you can remove the sticker and replace it with a fresh one. The idea is that the powder coating is more durable than the sticker so it should hold up even better. Of course, you could still trash the build plate either with a malfunction or user error but since the sheets are double sided, you get one do-over. I haven't used the powder coated sheet yet but I'm looking forward to getting one when they become available, the sticker sheet my printer shipped with has been great, I wanted the textured surface though.

I hope you're as happy with your mk3 as I am!

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Great thread here! I'm doing research on the sheets and getting ready to order my own first Prusa MK3. I realize this is a beginner question and I apologize for that, but I didn't see a clear answer on this when I searched. I know the original smooth sheet that came with Prusa printers required some EXTENSIVE steps to replace the PEI layer if damaged (like removing a print before it cools), and a lot of people tend to use aftermarket sheets & PEI replacements.

I'm not as sure on what advantages the powder coated steel sheets offer though - does it still require similar steps to replace PEI layer down the road? Or due to the texturing, does it NOT require those steps, but rather a combination of keeping the powder coated sheet clean and getting the z height just right so the print sticks properly?

If it doesn't require replacing that PEI glue layer, yeah I think I'm willing to wait 5-6 weeks for shipping on that! 😎

The powder coated sheet is basically no replacement option that to damage the sheet will take some serious effort. On my test sheet before the current version that is now release I have been printing all kinds of materials that you normally shouldn't on PEI. I did flex just recently and it still basically acts like printing on pei where is a pain to get off the bed but holds up well. There's only been a couple rare events where I needed a glue stick but overall if you get a good z height and keep the bed clean and its been fairly reliable and I have mostly been able to set and forget with the rare print coming loose and I think that was more of it just not having as much of a surface area contact on the bed. I think its worth the wait and I will be picking up a release board when they are sold.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

I have this powder coated steel plate I am having difficulty with prints staying on the bed with what appears to be a very good Z-setting. After reading this thread it seems I need to "lower" my z in order to achieve better adhesion. Is this correct? I am working with the PLA that came with the kit. Best, Steve

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Cleanliness is next to Lowlieness...
A Low Z height will not force adhesion on a greasy buildplate. on the contrary too low a Z height causes the Extruded filament to squirm out of the way, causing ripples, waves and surface roughness
with PETG this results in nozzle pickup, where the excess filament collects on the nozzle rather than being effectively ploughed...

regards Joan

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Thank you for the quick resonse, though if it were as simple as cleaning, I would be happy. I do clean the surface with acetone after each attempt. I have a slight build up almost continually though I have adjusted the z up to get better flow. The problem happens almost immediately and mostly in the center. I recalibrated many times to no avail and have readjusted the PINDA as well. It is just not sticking to the print plate. I have printed some test items that worked, but the prints fail at approximately the 1% mark or 50% mark completion rate at the surface and then of course at the nozzle height. Q: Would one of Prusa's other print beds work better? I would rather have difficulty removing a print rather than not finishing one.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Have you tried taking the build plate to the kitchen, scrubbing the build surface (When cold) with a clean scotchbright pad with dilute dishwashing detergent/soap, then washing with clean water and drying with a clean paper towel?
and then making sure not to touch the surface when you put it back on the printer

then try printing the first layer slowly.

regards Joan

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Yes, I have done that twice. I even tried a mild abrasive kitchen cleanser (Meyers) That doesn't scratch a glass oven top. That worked to some degree. I have changed the g-code on this print with Prusa Control to include 'All Supports" and that is better, but I have had two failures since and I am now watching print #3 currently at 11%. Overall height at this point is approxamately 4mm, so we'll see.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Uncertain if joant is still online but along these same lines, the perimeter project extruded line will lift as easily as blowing on the print bed though the initial nozzle extrusion at the beginning of the print cycle never does and frankly I don't always clean that area. Go figure.
I have used a infared thermometer and the outside the print temperature is 55C though the center between supports is 47-48C. Is this norma?

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Uncertain if joant is still online but along these same lines, the perimeter project extruded line will lift as easily as blowing on the print bed though the initial nozzle extrusion at the beginning of the print cycle never does and frankly I don't always clean that area. Go figure.

That line at the very start of the print outside the print area is the prime line. It's really just meant to get the flow going. If find that the prime line area is "well seasoned" after many prints, and since I rarely touch that area, it's generally not a problem. Depending on how your slicer is configured, that line will usually be much thicker than a normal extrusion, so isn't a great test.

If your skirt lines are literally blowing away, that definitely means you have an adhesion problem. It's either due to the sheet not being clean enough, or your Live-Z adjustment being way high (not negative enough). It sounds like you've been through all the processes, but when you complete the Live-Z tests, the lines should stay down even with a light rub of the finger. They should really stick.

How are you adjusting your Live-Z setting? The Life-Adjust process is recommended.

Also, when cleaning the bed under the sink, use ONLY dish soap. Other cleaners may add anti-fogging or drying agents. A good wash (Dawn dish soap has a good reputation), a good wipe with 91%+ IPA and DO NOT TOUCH THE BED and you should be set.

To tell you more, some good pics -- ideally of the Life-Z print -- would be helpful.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

Thanks Muppet Labs, "Prime Line," "Skirt Line," I'll get the vernacular down. I have been very OCD with the cleaning as I figured that was a major factor. As for 'z' setting I have lowered it and I can lower it more, just uncertain at what point I am creating a new problem. The test grid adheres well and the small rectangular print at the end measures .24mm, and I presume that should be sufficient. If I am still too high please advise.

Re: powder coated PEI steel sheet - less sticky than PEI sticker build plate

The test grid adheres well and the small rectangular print at the end measures .24mm, and I presume that should be sufficient. If I am still too high please advise.

I think you'll really be happier using a better test grid for your live z than the one prusa provides. Many folks have made this simple 9 patch test - which lets you really see how your level is across the whole build plate (not one little square and a single line). Here's mine: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3055929