Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING  

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Bob, while I have always defended Prusa in the firestorm about the powder coated flexplate at launch, I have to say I also find it frustrating and honestly not correct to see Prusa advertising the MK3 with powder coated plate being in stock for months now and still not having received the powder coated plate that I ordered a YEAR ago.

Can I print? Sure, very well so, but that's not the point.
The point is that Prusa is using the limited quantity of powder coated plates to generate more business at the expense of early supporters who financed the last big growth push for the company. Financially it will help Prusa to make more money and help to avoid liabilities towards new customers (the voucher and free shipping) but it does that at the cost of loyal customers who rode the stormy waters of a rocky launch with Prusa.

I take Joseph as a good guy, and honest business man, I really respect him a lot and Ithink he's handled many troubles quite well, but this decision is a little disappointing in my eyes.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] I take Joseph as a good guy, and honest business man, I really respect him a lot and Ithink he's handled many troubles quite well, but this decision is a little disappointing in my eyes.
Fair enough, and I am frustrated myself. However, I think they're pretty up front on the order pages, and they've offered me a pretty good deal in an effort to make it right. Having accepted those terms, I'm OK with where things are.

As to the advertising, they do describe a removable sheet with three options. Two of those have been delayed, but the sheet is definitely removable. That was the big draw for me, with finish being a secondary consideration. I've ordered a 2nd PEI sheet in the meantime... though that might have been a hasty decision. Also interesting that the smooth PC sheet seems to have disappeared from the online store.

I expect this will be just like the the printer backlog. Once they get stock and catch up, everyone will keep printing happily along. I'm sure Prusa's learned some lessons along the way. I notice they're being very quiet about the filament and US supplier that are supposedly in the works.

Anyhow, didn't intend for this to be an argument. I do think those of us who accepted the shipment with the alternate supplied plate had our chance to get a refund if we weren't happy with the deal. It would be dishonest not to acknowledge that. I can think of other things a lot more important right now. Happy printing all.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

I understand your frustration. Four years ago, I supported a launch and never got the product I supported. IT still bothers me.

PRUSA will deliver and it will happen in a few weeks. I am confident.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Maybe that's what is to be announced at the makerfair...

Powder coated build plates for the masses....

Joan

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Once again, I think people are extremely frustrated because there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of MK3 owners that received both a stickered sheet and PEI powder coated sheet for free already and those purchased the printer very early on are still waiting for the chance to buy a sheet.

I understand that the PC sheet was extremely fluid in the beginning, and we had the option of cancelling, but many didn't delay their orders because of Prusa's communication in their blogs; I was one of those people. My late October order was expected to be shipped with a PC sheet because the blog post said that orders shipped late January would get them..... Why would I delay or cancel because the official blog post said I would receive what I ordered. It wasn't until after I received my printer they sent out the next communication that the PC sheets were delayed.

As to the advertising, they do describe a removable sheet with three options. Two of those have been delayed, but the sheet is definitely removable. That was the big draw for me, with finish being a secondary consideration. I've ordered a 2nd PEI sheet in the meantime... though that might have been a hasty decision. Also interesting that the smooth PC sheet seems to have disappeared from the online store.

When the printer was first advertised it was advertised with only one sheet. The other 2 sheets were advertised later.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] I take Joseph as a good guy, and honest business man, I really respect him a lot and Ithink he's handled many troubles quite well, but this decision is a little disappointing in my eyes.
Fair enough, and I am frustrated myself. However, I think they're pretty up front on the order pages, and they've offered me a pretty good deal in an effort to make it right. Having accepted those terms, I'm OK with where things are.

As to the advertising, they do describe a removable sheet with three options. Two of those have been delayed, but the sheet is definitely removable. That was the big draw for me, with finish being a secondary consideration. I've ordered a 2nd PEI sheet in the meantime... though that might have been a hasty decision. Also interesting that the smooth PC sheet seems to have disappeared from the online store.

I expect this will be just like the the printer backlog. Once they get stock and catch up, everyone will keep printing happily along. I'm sure Prusa's learned some lessons along the way. I notice they're being very quiet about the filament and US supplier that are supposedly in the works.

Anyhow, didn't intend for this to be an argument. I do think those of us who accepted the shipment with the alternate supplied plate had our chance to get a refund if we weren't happy with the deal. It would be dishonest not to acknowledge that. I can think of other things a lot more important right now. Happy printing all.

This is plain not true, when i ordered it was only advertised with the PC sheet, it made zero mention of the stickered sheet on the store page at all, zero, not one single word, no mention of a voucher, nothing.

Its only when i started hanging out on the forums, AFTER i had ordered when they send you the email saying here are the forums i then found out about the PC issue, but at the time it was a complete non issue because the PC sheets at that time were supposed to be done before my order would ship, at least a month before my order would ship so in theory i didnt need to delay or cancel my order because it would ship with a PC sheet according to all available info at the time. I then went on with my life.

Now months later, then thats when they made the voucher announcement, and said the PC was delayed yet again for a month or two, since my ship date had also been pushed back months it was going to be close on weather my unit was going to ship PC or not. I didnt care because either way within a week or two or printer arrival i should be able to get one. I didnt care if i had to order it after printer arrived if it was only going to be a few weeks, i wanted to order some replacement parts anyways so figured i would do that when PC sheets were available and i could cash in the voucher.

Now here i am having had the printer for 3 months, PC sheets have been pushed back another 2 times since, but new orders are getting them shipped out, and us early adopters are getting the shaft. This in no way is the proper way to handle the situation no matter how the Prusa fanboys try and spin this. People who ordered first should get what they ordered first, this isnt a hard concept to understand, when i order this printer it was with a PC sheet, i still dont have it, yet people who ordered almost a full year after i did do have theirs.

Sure i could have gotten a refund, BUT at the time i got my printer it was only going to be a few weeks and i had decided at that time a few weeks wasnt that bad, well guess what Prusa lied(again) and it wasnt a few weeks. They can own that as i made the decision not to pursue a refund due to their constant lies/mis-information about when the PC sheets would be ready.

They very well could have told me when i ordered originally PC sheets were a year out, that would have been the honest thing to do and would have effected my decision to order/refund, but they didnt, they took the cash instead and strung people along for a year and still havent produced the sheets for us early adopters.

To recap:

Ordered printer with no mention of PC sheet delays on store page at all, zero mention of stickered sheet at all
- Was told PC sheets would be shipping before my printer anyways
- PC sheets delayed, until approximately when my printer would ship.
- Printer shipped
- 3 Months later after got printer no PC sheet and unlikely to get one for another few months at this rate ill be lucky to have one by xmas.
- New orders placed 8+ months after mine get PC sheets shipped with printer and there are now many with PC sheets in hand while im still out in the
cold waiting.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...]

As to the advertising, they do describe a removable sheet with three options. Two of those have been delayed, but the sheet is definitely removable. That was the big draw for me, with finish being a secondary consideration. I've ordered a 2nd PEI sheet in the meantime... though that might have been a hasty decision. Also interesting that the smooth PC sheet seems to have disappeared from the online store.

When the printer was first advertised it was advertised with only one sheet. The other 2 sheets were advertised later.
To be clear, I used the word "do" -- present tense -- in responding to this specific comment (emphasis mine):

I have to say I also find it frustrating and honestly not correct to see Prusa advertising the MK3 with powder coated plate being in stock for months now and still not having received the powder coated plate that I ordered a YEAR ago.

I began tracking the Mk3 starting with the Make: round-up last year, though I'm not sure of the timing. At the time I saw it, multiple sheet options were described. My point is that removable flex sheets are what is advertised, and I (and presumably others) have received a removable flex sheet. The finish on the flex sheet is the issue.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

To make one thing clear-I really don't want to start another firestorm about the powder coated flex plate.

I think Prusa has handled the production issues in the best possible way in the beginning and I actually considered (and still consider) the offering of the smooth plate and the voucher + free shipping for the PC plate a very pragmatic and generous solution.

I was thinking that it would be nice to have at least a certain percentage of PC plates allocated to the people waiting to buy them for their early MK3s, like me, but I guess sending out the vouchers in batches based on pre-order date would start another wave of complaints and confusion and would be a logistic challenge.

So I'll wait patiently and use the time to make prints with smooth surfaces 🙂

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

To make one thing clear-I really don't want to start another firestorm about the powder coated flex plate.

I think Prusa has handled the production issues in the best possible way in the beginning and I actually considered (and still consider) the offering of the smooth plate and the voucher + free shipping for the PC plate a very pragmatic and generous solution.

I was thinking that it would be nice to have at least a certain percentage of PC plates allocated to the people waiting to buy them for their early MK3s, like me, but I guess sending out the vouchers in batches based on pre-order date would start another wave of complaints and confusion and would be a logistic challenge.

So I'll wait patiently and use the time to make prints with smooth surfaces 🙂

Don't shoot the messenger!

If it's any consolation to those unhappy about the PC situation, I have the PC sheet but there have been multiple times when I wish I had a smooth surface to print on. Try getting a as-much-as-possible transparent surface with the textured plate. Not gonna happen.

It does seem to work very well but I have no other point of reference although I see all the time in these forums that the stickered sheet also works very well.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

To make one thing clear-I really don't want to start another firestorm about the powder coated flex plate.

I think Prusa has handled the production issues in the best possible way in the beginning and I actually considered (and still consider) the offering of the smooth plate and the voucher + free shipping for the PC plate a very pragmatic and generous solution.

I was thinking that it would be nice to have at least a certain percentage of PC plates allocated to the people waiting to buy them for their early MK3s, like me, but I guess sending out the vouchers in batches based on pre-order date would start another wave of complaints and confusion and would be a logistic challenge.

So I'll wait patiently and use the time to make prints with smooth surfaces 🙂

Don't shoot the messenger!

If it's any consolation to those unhappy about the PC situation, I have the PC sheet but there have been multiple times when I wish I had a smooth surface to print on. Try getting a as-much-as-possible transparent surface with the textured plate. Not gonna happen.

It does seem to work very well but I have no other point of reference although I see all the time in these forums that the stickered sheet also works very well.

The stickered sheets work well, but there longevity is the issue. People have already had to replace the stickers due to wear and tear or damage, and the bubbles the occur under the corner of prints is an issue. I have to flip mine over after each use or the bubbles do not go away very quickly. Im hoping if i ever get ahold of a PC sheet that it will be more durable.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Don't shoot the messenger!

If it's any consolation to those unhappy about the PC situation, I have the PC sheet but there have been multiple times when I wish I had a smooth surface to print on. Try getting a as-much-as-possible transparent surface with the textured plate. Not gonna happen.

It does seem to work very well but I have no other point of reference although I see all the time in these forums that the stickered sheet also works very well.

You at least have the option to buy one of the smooth sticker plates now. I have a specific need for the textured surface and lack the same option to purchase one. Hence the frustration. I have not been waiting quite as long as some of these folks though. Hopefully they won't sell out before I get my voucher when they finally add them to the store.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

I personally think the whole issue surrounding the Textured PEI sheets has been handled very poorly. Its almost been a year and there is only around 3-4 blog posts mentioning the TX PEI sheets. One of which bearly contained a sentence talking about the issue. I seriously don't like how new customers have been receiving the TX sheets since June.

Also, let's be fair here the Smooth PEI sheets might be more expensive in the store but they are far cheaper to manufacture. They have a higher price tag because Prusa was originally going to sell them separate to the printer. So, you'd need to buy an MK3 with the default TX sheet then you'd need to buy the Smooth as an additional item.

To me, this feels like a slap in the face to customers who bought this printer first as it appears we have been pushed to the back of the queue so Prusa can supply TX sheets to new customers.

Allegedly, the TX sheets are going to be available to order with our $10 voucher by the end of September. However, the yield of TX sheets is quite low and they are going to be around 7000 eligible customers waiting to get one.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

"Currently, we estimate that we could start selling powder coated sheets as separate orders in the second half of October. I know that we have postponed the delivery a couple of times already"

and again a big "Fuck you customer"

i still don't get it. Why do people that orderd this year get the sheets, and first minute MK3 customers have to wait.

First come - latest served.... not exactly a thank you for customers giving money month in advance for a product.
and if you wait until it is in stock, and there are reviews and so on. The risk that the product ist BS is much lower... then you get it way before the first minute backers.
(That maybe nerver get it at all.)

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] i still don't get it. Why do people that orderd this year get the sheets, and first minute MK3 customers have to wait.
If you mean those customers that received a more expensive double-side PEI stickered sheet and will receive the $10 discount code and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available, I assume it's because Prusa already provided those customers with a more expensive double-side PEI stickered sheet and they will receive the $10 discount code and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available. That was Prusa's way of making amends. To add still-more people to the queue would result in those customers also expecting a more expensive double-side PEI stickered sheet and the $10 discount code and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available, which could be the death of a small company.

The sheets were withdrawn as an option when Prusa couldn't guarantee they'd ever be available, and Prusa provided those who had ordered a more expensive double-side PEI stickered sheet and the $10 discount code and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available. At that time, they had no way of knowing when or if the PC sheets would actually be available, so they did their best to make it right. Having made it right, and existing customers having had their opportunity to seek a refund, Prusa's moving on with business. As the sheets become available, they have not abandoned original customers. Those customers will get the coupon and free shipping. Prusa's eating something like $20-45 to make them happy.

Meahwhile, those of us affected have had our more expensive smooth double-sided PEI stickered sheet in our possession for many months and can look forward to the $10 discount coupon and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available.

I went to a buffet once. I got there early and paid. As I worked my way down the line, they ran out of coconut shrimp. I complained, so the manager gave me a dish that is normally extra, and promised I could get back in line for the shrimp when it was available. As I was eating my meal, I noticed they put some coconut shrimp up. I had to wait in line to get my coconut shrimp. OH MY GOD!

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

did the coconut shrimp come with a $10 discount code and free shipping?

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

did the coconut shrimp come with a $10 discount code and free shipping?
I got a free Pepsi. The manager brought the shrimp over, but waited for the people already in line to get theirs before doing so. One of the reasons I eat there is for their coconut shrimp, so this really sucks. Completely unacceptable. I'll be really huffy when I come back next week. They've still got the best coconut shrimp. It really pisses me off that other people got their coconut shrimp before I got mine though. I'm going to write a really crappy Yelp review, but I'll still come back every week.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] i still don't get it. Why do people that orderd this year get the sheets, and first minute MK3 customers have to wait.
If you mean those customers that received a more expensive double-side PEI stickered sheet and will receive the $10 discount code and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available, I assume it's because Prusa already provided those customers with a more expensive double-side PEI stickered sheet and they will receive the $10 discount code and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available. That was Prusa's way of making amends. To add still-more people to the queue would result in those customers also expecting a more expensive double-side PEI stickered sheet and the $10 discount code and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available, which could be the death of a small company.

The sheets were withdrawn as an option when Prusa couldn't guarantee they'd ever be available, and Prusa provided those who had ordered a more expensive double-side PEI stickered sheet and the $10 discount code and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available. At that time, they had no way of knowing when or if the PC sheets would actually be available, so they did their best to make it right. Having made it right, and existing customers having had their opportunity to seek a refund, Prusa's moving on with business. As the sheets become available, they have not abandoned original customers. Those customers will get the coupon and free shipping. Prusa's eating something like $20-45 to make them happy.

Meahwhile, those of us affected have had our more expensive smooth double-sided PEI stickered sheet in our possession for many months and can look forward to the $10 discount coupon and free shipping for the PC sheet when it's readily available.

I went to a buffet once. I got there early and paid. As I worked my way down the line, they ran out of coconut shrimp. I complained, so the manager gave me a dish that is normally extra, and promised I could get back in line for the shrimp when it was available. As I was eating my meal, I noticed they put some coconut shrimp up. I had to wait in line to get my coconut shrimp. OH MY GOD!

You keep saying people had a chance to pursue a refund, which is technically true, however you leave out the very vital part about Prusa constantly lying and moving the goal posts a month at a time on the PC sheet availability. When you think you only have a few weeks to wait for a sheet after getting the printer this is going to effect your decision making process to pursue a refund alot differently than them telling you the truth and saying they are a year out. But here we are coming up on a year later and no PC sheets to be found for early adopters. Prusa just keep stringing us along and moving those goalposts to keep the cash flow going for them.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] You keep saying people had a chance to pursue a refund, which is technically true, however you leave out the very vital part about Prusa constantly lying and moving the goal posts a month at a time on the PC sheet availability. The PC beds were, are and for the foreseeable future, will be outside of Prusa's control. They've always stated as much. If you consider it "lying" to provide an update based upon the best available information, then that's your issue. The reality is that things don't always go as planned.

[...] But here we are coming up on a year later and no PC sheets to be found for early adopters. Prusa just keep stringing us along and moving those goalposts to keep the cash flow going for them.... after providing everyone affected with the more expensive double-side PEI stickered flex sheet and a $10 voucher with free shipping for the PC sheets when they're in store stock.

Do you fly? Have you ever been on a flight that's cancelled? Ever notice they don't empty out the flight a half-hour later to the same destination? Why do you suppose that is?

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] You keep saying people had a chance to pursue a refund, which is technically true, however you leave out the very vital part about Prusa constantly lying and moving the goal posts a month at a time on the PC sheet availability. The PC beds were, are and for the foreseeable future, will be outside of Prusa's control. They've always stated as much. If you consider it "lying" to provide an update based upon the best available information, then that's your issue. The reality is that things don't always go as planned.

[...] But here we are coming up on a year later and no PC sheets to be found for early adopters. Prusa just keep stringing us along and moving those goalposts to keep the cash flow going for them.... after providing everyone affected with the more expensive double-side PEI stickered flex sheet and a $10 voucher with free shipping for the PC sheets when they're in store stock.

Do you fly? Have you ever been on a flight that's cancelled? Ever notice they don't empty out the flight a half-hour later to the same destination? Why do you suppose that is?

I bought into the "its out of our control" line for the first few delays, afterall shit does happen and its true that supplier screwups are indeed out of your control.

After that i stopped believing it because it was obviously not out of their control they were just choosing to stay with the same manufacturer, after the first few delays it went from out of their control to an active choice not to change suppliers and to stay with the supplier proven to be sub par on both delivery times and quality, that was Prusas choice to do that. And thus at this point it stopped being out of there control.

If you ran a business and one of your suppliers kept missing deadlines over and over and over again and supplying sub par products(which is what prusa is saying is effecting supply, to many returns due to quality) would you not make the decision to switch suppliers? A year is alot of time to solve a supply issue for one single item. Its not like there is only one place on the planet making PC sheets they are available on both amazon and ebay.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] If you ran a business and one of your suppliers kept missing deadlines over and over and over again and supplying sub par products(which is what prusa is saying is effecting supply, to many returns due to quality) would you not make the decision to switch suppliers? A year is alot of time to solve a supply issue for one single item. Its not like there is only one place on the planet making PC sheets they are available on both amazon and ebay.
The eBay items are frequently cited as having problems. The listings with the bad reviews seem to conveniently disappear. There's speculation that those auctions might be where the Prusa rejects are going. They also cost twice as much as the Prusa sheets will.

I'm sure if there were another supplier that was practical for Prusa (they're not a US company), they'd have chosen them. Prusa seems to be willing to throw ~$45 ($29 double-sided PEI sheet + $10 voucher + S&H costs) at affected customers for a $25 (retail) part. They don't seem to have had any qualms about moving away from their long-time filament supplier. In any case, you and I can only speculate. It's one thing to speculate that such items must be trivial to come by, but quite another to find them in quantity and be able to make a profit selling them at $25 a pop.

At least Prusa hasn't lost my luggage.