Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING  

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

can anybody tell me, if a concave/convex powder-coated steel sheet is standard? I mean whether anybody got their sheet flat or is every sheet concave?I don't have a powder-coated sheet, but do have 2 of the flex-steel double-sided PEI sheets. They are not perfectly flat when laid on a surface. Regardless of which side it is laid on, there is a slight curve upwards at the edges. I attribute this to the characteristics of spring steel.

I was asking Support about this but no response yet. Not sure whether this is a feature (like Microsoft tells about their faulty products), or is it insufficient quality control, or it's a really faulty component.Not a feature, but not surprising. The sheets are designed to be flexible after all, so they're not meant to be perfectly flat by themselves. It's the magnets on the bed that hold them flat when printing.

From my perspective, if you have a concave steel sheet and you want it to make it flat, it's not enough to put it on magnet covered flat surface. Trying to make it flat will cause the internal tension to spread and show up on another weakest spot on the sheet. It's not that I cannot print now, but 0.08mm difference across the sheet means the bottom surface of the print will not be flat. Is that 0.08mm on the magnetic bed or just on a flat surface? Are you having actual problems printing? The printer is sold and warranted to print well. I do not see any language claiming a precision flat bed. That would be meaningless on a part that you routinely flex in any case.

can anybody share their views? A simple test will do: place the plate on a flat surface and note if any corners are above the surface. flip the sheet and look again
I've attached pics of both sides of one of my sheets. They're flex, so I don't care what they look like off the bed. When I put them on the magnetic bed, they lay flat. Prints come out well, 1st layers have excellent adhesion. Note that this is the same sheet. The corners curve upwards in either case. Not sure if it's gravity or tension, but I honestly don't care much about the theory. It prints well. I'm mid-print on a 17 hour print, so can't snap a pic of the same sheet on the magnetic bed, but will try to post that later.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

it's 0.08mm when on magnetic bed. when on desk without magnets it's more than 1.5mm, you can guess from the photos

Measured skew is 0.01 degrees, so there's nothing wrong with construction or my build process.

sheet on the table:

ruler put on the side of the sheet, there's slight but visible distance in direction to the center

and here the complete picture of a ruler.

I'll continue in next post

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

"First layer calibration" looks like this (note that I only started it and did not change the previous value, it's at -0.777). I did not touch the knob since I started the calibration:

see the visible difference in thickness of the line between left and right side of the photo. difference between the thickness is 0.08mm, measured

is this expected?

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] is this expected?
I'm no expert, but some amount of variation is corrected for by the auto bed-leveling routine. If you can run your finger over those Live-Z lines without them dislodging, it may be within acceptable bounds. Have you tried something like a 210x205x0.20mm single layer print with concentric infill to see if it makes any difference on an actual print? If not... it wouldn't seem to me to be a problem.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] is this expected?
I'm no expert, but some amount of variation is corrected for by the auto bed-leveling routine. If you can run your finger over those Live-Z lines without them dislodging, it may be within acceptable bounds. Have you tried something like a 210x205x0.20mm single layer print with concentric infill to see if it makes any difference on an actual print? If not... it wouldn't seem to me to be a problem.

yeah, I thought the same. But Support told me that PINDA's function is restricted and it cannot handle such problem. Which is weird, I thought PINDA exists exactly to solve these problems.

just slightly running a finger on the print in back of the sheet (left side of the photo) takes the printed line down. I also experience prints not sticking equally on that side of the sheet. If you look closer, you can see the end of the print (right side of the photo) is squished too much. the other side can be blown off by a soft touch of the finger.

so to get this right, the sides and corners of the sheet are higher than the rest, as you can see from the photo above. Plus, spots between center and the sides of the sheet are slightly lower than the center. And center is lower than sides, to get it even more complicated.

correct me if I'm wrong but MK3 has no option to correct such a deformation. PINDA probe probes 9 spots - does not detect any problem and does not probe at problematic spots.

the heated bed is perfectly flat by the way

that's the reason why I am starting to be angry and saying Support does not help. because they did not help at all with this case

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

one more picture: I was told by Support to set Rear manual bed leveling correction to -20. Result: better, but did not resolve the problem.

you can see the nozzle is too close to the bed and squishes the first layer too much (it's sticking well, I promise, it's the nozzle that was brushing the layer because it was too close.). But that's not any specific side or corner, it's just all over the steel sheet. That's why manual bed correction is not an option, because I only can set rear,front,left,right and nothing else. PINDA does not correct this, according to Support.

if I correct the 1st layer so that the too-squished squares are fine, those normally squished would contain holes, or would just fall off the bed.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] if I correct the 1st layer so that the too-squished squares are fine, those normally squished would contain holes, or would just fall off the bed.
Ah, yes. You've definitely got something more going on. I don't know if it's helpful knowing that other sheets aren't completely flat either, but good luck getting things working. It seems like leveling is more your issue than the flatness of the sheet.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Thanks. I'm trying to escalate the issue a bit higher, I'll see where it ends and whether Support even responds. Tried twitter also, now it's time for bed 😁

Almost happy printing!

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Just a thought. The flatness of the sheet seems like something of a red herring. Support may be thrown of the track if that's not the real issue. Your print results are probably worth focusing on the most as those definitely show something amiss.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Back to the topic of the thread: I think PRUSA is breaking the logjam and will be shipping the powder coated sheets soon to everyone. I ordered an assembled kit on 12 July and it shipped today.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

OT: sorry to hijack again, I cannot edit my previous post, so UPDATE: Support staff has changed upon Twitter contact. Now they are on track and responding properly. Thanks!

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

THAT is good news. Persistance pays off.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Have there been any updates as to when the powder coated sheets will be available to voucher-less Mk3 buyers?

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Have there been any updates as to when the powder coated sheets will be available to voucher-less Mk3 buyers?

Equally nice would be some idea of when still-waiting-for-voucher early pre-order Mk3 buyers could hope to get hold of these.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Have there been any updates as to when the powder coated sheets will be available to voucher-less Mk3 buyers?

I guess "officially" end of september, the same time as for the "vouchered" people... They say «We estimate to have the textured powder-coated sheets available separately on the e-shop at the end of September 2018. [...] The $10 vouchers with free shipping for ordering these will be released shortly after the sheets are added on the e-shop.»

I interpret this to mean "the sheets will be available for purchase (to all) at the end of september. At the same time we will start giving away the vouchers."

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

I was told by email that the powder coated sheets will be 2 months at least... and the email was on the 27th August 🙁

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Sorry if this is addressed elsewhere in the thread. Has anyone gotten their PEI sheet voucher yet? I still just have the survey voucher on my account (ordered my MK3 early Nov. 2017).

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Sorry if this is addressed elsewhere in the thread. Has anyone gotten their PEI sheet voucher yet? The vouchers will be issued when the sheets are available in the store. I was on with support last night on another problem and asked about my Jan 2018 order and they confirmed.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

Sorry if this is addressed elsewhere in the thread. Has anyone gotten their PEI sheet voucher yet? The vouchers will be issued when the sheets are available in the store. I was on with support last night on another problem and asked about my Jan 2018 order and they confirmed.

That sure doesn't compute how people that purchased them with the included PC sheets, only to have them pulled last minute, are the VERY last to have the opportunity to get them, and then have to pay for the privilege...

I never even received a option for the surface on my second week shipment to wait or go with PEI sheet.

Re: Powder Coated PEI Sheets: NOW SHIPPING

[...] That sure doesn't compute how people that purchased them with the included PC sheets, only to have them pulled last minute, are the VERY last to have the opportunity to get them, and then have to pay for the privilege...It is not all that uncommon with new tech. It definitely sucks, but I think Prusa has done a decent job making it right. They released a new product and one very popular component (the PC sheet) was not available. For a while, they offered the option to wait, but when it became clear that the supply was uncertain, they had to do something. Holding onto a lot of peoples' money and warehousing a boatload of printers is a sure disaster for a small company. (Imagine a warehouse fire.) This will happen with accessories with a lot of products for a variety of reasons. I recall a popular phone being released in hard-to-get colors, then those not being available and alternates provided.

Prusa posted about the issue, and did what they could: They shipped with the more expensive double-sided PEI sticker sheets, along with the promise of a $10 off voucher and free shipping when supplies became available. Anybody that ordered and paid got the best they could do. Anybody that wasn't happy with the deal could have canceled, or if they managed to miss the announcements, sought a refund. Prusa did their best to make early purchasers whole. I've got a very usable sheet that would have cost $5 more, and will get the PC sheet for roughly $15 when supplies improve.

At some point, supplies became available. Early purchasers had already received a more expensive sheet and were going to get a voucher, so providing them an additional free sheet made no business sense. Making new orders and old orders wait and warehouse the printers would have made even less sense. They chose a middle ground. Businesses need to ship inventory, so they did the sensible thing: Put the sheets back in inventory as an option for new orders. JP & Co. are a business.

I never even received a option for the surface on my second week shipment to wait or go with PEI sheet.
I'm in that exact boat. Now if you didn't receive the more expensive double-sided PEI sticker sheet, you've got a case. If you sought a refund when that big black box arrived and you realized that the PC sheet which was the only reason you ordered it wasn't in there, you've got a case. If you opened it up and started print away happily several months ago with the alternate sheet they provided and you're still expecting that voucher, you don't have much of a case. You made your choice then.

Yes, it sucks. Reality does. Prusa is doing the smart thing for a business to do. That has to come before being a big hearted nice guy. Prusa going under doesn't help anybody.

Meanwhile, I got my printer months ago and have been happily printing ever since. Yes, having a neat finish on bottom surfaces would be nice. That's not the only thing I bought the printer for, and if it had been, I sure as hell would have gone after a refund the day it arrived instead of being upset that others got neat new toys months later. Mine's coming. I can wait for it.