Mistook Seams for defects. Great Learning experience.  

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

This is the tangled filament.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

I bought my MK3 in Canada from Voxel Factory which included Materio3d filament rather than Prusa brand, and also had this tangling issue. I looked for a discount filament for my second roll and found 'seacans' brand in Canada which was something like half the price of Materio3d. Curiously, it is spooled very nicely and has not had this tangle issue at all. The box it came in wasn't as fancy though... 😎

When the first roll tangled, I had a chance to fix it in time before anything nasty happened because I had printed and installed a filament guide. It would creak and moan when the filament was getting stuck. I recommend this filament guide, although make sure your filament sensor cables clear it when Z position is at the top.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2758405

If the audio cue isn't enough you could also have a visual cue, using this filament filter assembly. It likes to bounce around on top of the filament guide making little sounds, and if things get stiff it surely will behave oddly.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:153807

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

[...] Filament broke but ruined a component and now all my prints are coming with a gash or crease. Please see pictures.
It's a little hard to see without a close-up, but that looks to be the layer seam, consisting of imperfections where one layer ends and another begins. You have to transition between layers somewhere. Your slicer will have options that can help hide them (e.g. Print Settings->Layers and perimeters->Advanced->Seam position in Slic3r), but it is difficult to do so on cylindrical surfaces. Have you tried to adjust this setting? You can try random, but you're still likely to have some sort of imperfection or "zit".

Simplify 3D has a nice explanation of this characteristic of FDM printing and some hints on what you can do about it. Cura has some really nice capabilities for hiding the seam as well.

Your print looks pretty good otherwise. Is that the Gramazon? If you read that article, you'll note that the author describes having to use Bondo to smooth imperfections out to achieve the finish you see in the pics. That seam is one of those imperfections.

Edit: I thought this looked familiar. Is there some reason you posted multiple duplicates? The answer will be the same for all.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

OP:

It is physically impossible for filament to come tangled from the factory. The way filament is made makes it impossible, because it is spooled as it is drawn from the extruder.

You likely let the filament slip under itself in storage, and didn't notice (it can be easy to miss, and take a while to bind up).

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Filament could not have come from the factory tangled like that. That has occurred since it was first used.

The lines you see are nothing to do with the tangle. They are the layer seams. Vary the settings in your slicer to make changes to the seam position.

Nice looking prints you have there!

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Thank you for replying to my desperate post. No, I don’t think is a seam. Yes, it is the gramazon. Of you can see the base and lid, they came out perfect with no Seam alike gash, lines or gaps. Every single print was great.

After the tangle incident, which cut or severed the filament, every single print started to have defects. Now even the brim has a line across and there is a small jump or turn at the Z steppers, that was not there before.

It does not have anything to do with a seam, as it happens only for the approximate 2” height. After that height it disappears.

It changed completely the quality of my prints.

And I certainly have no idea how to fix it.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Thank you for replying to my desperate post. No, I don’t think is a seam. Yes, it is the gramazon. Of you can see the base and lid, they came out perfect with no Seam alike gash, lines or gaps. Every single print was great. Take a breath, relax and look at the great prints. Are they cylindrical like the cones, or do they have some sort of edges? If they have edges, inspect them closely. You'll see where your slicer has most likely tucked the seam into a corner. On a cylindrical or completely rounded surface, there is no corner, so there's no place to hide the seam.

After the tangle incident, which cut or severed the filament, every single print started to have defects. Now even the brim has a line across and there is a small jump or turn at the Z steppers, that was not there before. Every single line in the brim has a start and stop point. There will be a seam there. The severity of the seam can be affected by extrusion multipliers, and (depending on your slicer) possibly other factors, but it will always be there. The jump in the Z steppers can be caused by simply adjusting to a new layer (they do move after all) or might be due to increased retraction settings in your slicer.

And I certainly have no idea how to fix it.
You are fighting the answers you are being given. If you are not willing to do basic troubleshooting in order to improve your prints, nobody here can help you. You can start by trying to adjust the seam location and confirm that it does, indeed, move about. There's nothing wrong with learning and making mistakes.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Bobstro,

Thank you for your detailed reply and I appreciate you taking the time to advise me on the problem I am having.

I tried all the settings, doing changes and trials and it is still behaving the same way.

I understand the seam feature as well.

I also stayed for an hour with Prusa support last night and they said the same regarding the seams. And I tried every single instruction the Technician gave me, without success.

What puzzles me is that before the incident, there was no noticeable gash on my prints, and I have quite a few cylindrical and spherical and they are all great.

It seems that there is a jump or twist on the steppers, that causes it and it is not related to a seam, for me, a seam is a feature and what I am seeing is a gash on both sides of the wall.

The gash starts right from the first layer of the brim and continues for around 2.5" and then the rest of the print (a cylindrical shape or tube) produces a seamless or at least not visible cylindrical wall.

I am not fighting the answers I requested, I welcome them and I have done trouble-shooting as advised and the defects remain. Seams are not a defect, what I am getting are clearly defects.

What can I tell you, my prints before the tangle didn't have a seam or seam alike on them.

Thank you for the advise, which I receive and welcome, but I cannot change the fact that my prints were better before the tangle and crash. I am trying to find the solution for it and I have tried the trouble shooting without any success .

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Can you post a better picture? It's hard to see much from the distance of your original pics.

Your prints look very good, and any physical damage would likely cause other inconsistencies. Have you tried recalibration of XYZ? I believe you mentioned you did this already.

Consider this: Any damage caused by your filament mishap would be random. If you print the same gcode file again, is the flaw in exactly the same place? You could try another slicer to eliminate software setup.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

I will post new pictures, thanks again.

Yes, I will try with a different slicer.

I will keep you posted, and I truly appreciate you taking the time to help me.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

A few images.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

some more

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Those show where the gash starts and ends, it is not all along the print.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

[...] Yes, I will try with a different slicer.

You have convinced yourself that it's not the seam. Rather than try to persuade you, I'm going to show you what the seam looks like in my slicer. Here's what the Gramazon horn looks like in my slicer (Slic3r) preview after I save the gcode file:

Here is part of the seam with the Aligned setting:

Here it is with the Rear setting:

Here it is with the Random setting:

Here are seams on some of my cylindrical prints:

It matches the seam location in my slicer preview! What is this sorcery?

Here's one, a bit hard to see, with the Random setting. Instead of one continuous seam, there are 4 around the shape, with each one having 1/4 of the seams:

Obviously the work of the devil. It matches the slicer preview!

A shape with hard angles will also have a seam where each layer stops and the next starts:

But a good slicer software can hide the seam in corners:

Open the horn up in your slicer, let it process the file, then look carefully in preview mode for the seam. Does it align with those defects on your print?

If you are not seeing seams, I have to ask why not? Every FDM-printed part has a seam. If you've discovered a way to actually eliminate rather than hide them, PATENT IT TODAY. A lot of people are looking for it.

You could try printing in Vase mode which will print the entire thing as one continuous single extrusion-width flow, but it may be too weak and thin. If you are still convinced it's not a seam -- and again, I ask if that's not the seam, where is it? -- then you can try posting some clearer pictures along with the corresponding slicer previews as I have done. I'm afraid this is all I can do to try to help at this point.

Do me a favor please: If you run into a problem, don't try to place the blame on somebody else. Your claim that the filament jam caused these problems is absurd, and sounds like something an ambulance-chasing lawyer would scream. In any case, your pic only shows user inattention. Ask and learn first. If you've eliminated other factors, then post a reasoned post of how you came to that conclusion. Don't cross-post with sensational subject lines.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Totally agree with bobstro, this is clearly a seam and he took a long time explaining why.

The positive fact for you is that your problem is solved and you can be convinced of it within 20 minutes.

As he did, slice a cylinder a search for the seam on your preview, then print it and compare, you will be fixed (best is to set seam position on align or rear to see it).

The fact that you may never have noticed seams before is that with "nearest" they can be randomly distributed on each layers, so the seam effect disappears in favor of small localized defects.

That is what explain the photo where you think the gash isn't on all the print, I can ensure you that the same defects are present on other layers, but being not aligned you don't see them as well.

And your prints are really nice by the way, you should be glad of it !

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Bobstro,

Well I guess I will not patent it, but I will show you prints with absolutely no seam or at least not visible.

And if what I get on my prints would be a seam, that would be acceptable; what I am seeing and showing in the pictures differs completely with your screen shots.

What I have is defects, a seam would be almost straight and at the same area, my defects are diagonal and at ramdom places. AND THEY ARE NOT CONTINUOUS AS YOUR SEAMS IN THE SCREEN SHOTS.

My claim as you call it is evidence based, on a simple before an after situation, It didn't have the defect and now it has it.

And you also can do me a favor. Just try to understand that a tangle/knot on the filament can conduce to undue stress on the axes and extruder. Due to the tension the filament broke and was cut meaning that a lot of force and tension was put on the parts. for some unknown reason, the crash setting of the printer kicked in later than expected and that tells me it might be the cause for the defects. I say defects, you say seams, it is an absurd right. but it is what happened, even if you don't want to consider it.

And as per user inattention, lucky you that can be glued to your printer for 13 hours.

If you get upset when somebody is having trouble, ask and learn first as well, as not all the issues are the same unless they have the same and identified root cause.

What we attained here? A BIG NOTHING.

Thank for the lecture it made me go back to elementary school; memories of an old school and useless teaching method.

I'll look for answers somewhere else.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Wow. Some people are really denying to learn and try.

@Marco: Seam is is part of FDM printing. It can be more or less pronounced, it can change the position. People here showed you how to approach your issue and described it briefly. Spend some time to make it even visual.
But the only thing you're doing is trying to convince us is that your printer is defect. Good luck on that in the next forum/community.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

Bobstro may have been a bit rough in his explanation, but he is right. It is the seam. Here are screenshots in slic3r with only shells and retractions turned on. Retractions happen when it changes layers, and you can clearly see the seam as a result. They match your photos of printed parts.

Re: Original Prusa Filament tangled and ruined my Printer

In case it's useful for the next person with this issue:

I scaled the horn down to 30mm and re-sliced using the Nearest seam option. I printed with extrusion turned way up to enhance the effect. You can clearly see the seam working its way up from lower-left to right.

I excel at doing crappy prints.