RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
A little late to the party, but I'm going to chime in with a somewhat contrarian position...
The decision between kit or pre-built should come down to time. Specifically, how much a day or so of your time is worth to you. If you have time and will enjoy building your kit, definitely go that route. If your time is limited or you just want to get printing and don't view a 3D printer as a hobby unto itself, consider a pre-built. In my case, I had very limited time at home and it was worth spending $250 to have a working unit as my first printer that I knew should function properly and that I could get support for if something was amiss. Now 2 1/2 years later, I have no regrets.
While it's true that you can learn a lot about your printer by building it, that is by no means the only way to learn. I've learned over the months as I've encountered issues and have had no problem understanding the mechanics of the printer. I swap nozzles and filaments daily and have no qualms about opening the lid and doing hotend repairs. If I need to replace the rods someday, I can read the manual and learn all about it then. I have encountered people who have built a kit and are yet hesitant to swap nozzles for fear of breaking something. There is no need to build the kit as a prerequisite to fully understanding the printer. It's a testament to Prusa that these folks have smooth running printers.
Based on what I've learned from my pre-built Prusa, I'm might consider a kit for a future printer. When the COVID disaster unfolded, I wanted a 2nd printer to increase capacity to print PPE. I purchased a low-cost 2nd printer (Artillery Sidewinder) and my experience with my pre-built Prusa was invaluable for getting it running smoothly and dealing with failures (bed thermistor) whilst waiting 3 days for email support responses.
Knowledge is knowledge, no matter how acquired. Things you learn reading online or watching YouTube videos are just as relevant as those you learn fumbling around with a kit. If a kit is fun for you, definitely go for one. On the other hand, if you don't particularly enjoy kits (I'm sick of them after 30 years of building PCs) or time is scarce for you, consider a pre-built.
Whatever you do, I strongly recommend you go with a Prusa. Having a 2nd printer to compare, I can say a lot of the things that were raised as "major problems" on the Prusa are nonsense. The user experience on the Prusa is far smoother. Things that I take for granted on the Mk3 are an adventure on the Sidewinder. You can get cheaper and larger printers for less money, but they are generally not as reliable (bed failure after 15 days) and convenient (have to wait for that big glass bed to fully cool) as a Prusa. It's a fine printer -- I quite like it -- but I'm glad my Prusa kept running during the push as I ordered replacement parts and waited for email support to respond.
Thanks for the info !!
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
@ilja-coveliers
Very Important! When you build your kit make sure to LOAD YOUR BeARINGS WITH GReASe before sliding them onto the rods. This is not mentioned in the assembly instructions and, in fact, Prusa claims you don't need to do it. BUT YOU DO. I didn't load mine and got grooves worn into my X-axis rod and then had to remove and grease-load all my bearings and replace some of them, as well as the worn rod.
This. I have always oiled my rods with a light oil as Prusa was recommending a while ago, but, at least for me, that wasn't sufficient. With all the 24/7 abuse of PPE printing recently, I got deep grooves in the X and Y axis rods (Z-axis rods are not really load bearing, so they don't need nearly as much attention). I have since rotated the rods 😀 (new ones on order) and repacked the bearings with PTFE grease. Seems good for now.
Things you will need:
- IPA (alcohol) to clean the spring steel sheets. Ideally grab 99.9% pure for electronics need (hard to get right now, but the electronic-type is less in demand).
- Windex or local equivalent (Ammonia-based window cleaner) if you want to print PETG on the smooth sheets (probably not the first thing you should try to do).
- Brass brushes to clean the nozzle and heater block occasionally or when an "accident" happens and you have a blob of melted plastic on the heater block. Some people like to put a sock on the heater block, which is useful if you have chronic issues with this, but you have time to figure out if you need one. You do need brass brushes though. Buy a pack of cheap plastic ones if you can.
Thanks for the valuable info !!
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
For brass brushes I use the cheap ones with wooden handles that you can find in the welding section of most home improvement stores. Starting out with PLA you won't need it right away, but if you go to materials that print at higher temps you will need to clean the sides of the nozzle and the heat block (when they are hot) eventually.
Wash the smooth PEI bed with soap and water, rinse with water, and dry quickly with a clean towel. All my previous experience with various bed types including PEI I've always gotten by with just IPA with an occasional rub with acetone to renew, but the ones from Prusa seem to need more washing with water.
You may want to pick up an extra steel bed, but for just starting out that's probably overkill, just use one side of the included sheet for PLA and the other side for other types. I picked up a 3rd party blank sheet and put PEI on one side and painters tape on the other side for printing flexible filament that likes to bond way too well to PEI. I will probably get a 3rd sheet for textured PEI at some point.
Thanks for the info !!
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
It would be helpful if these cleaning tools could be ordered alongside your printer in the Prusa shop.
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
In these hard to get alcohol times, IPA is not really necessary. The pure 99% IPA has a hard time removing finger grease anyway.
I have stopped using IPA for de-greasing, replacing it with hot water and dish wash soap. Followed by a quick drying to avoid rust and only touching the edges when handling. TIP: Use the hot bed as a final drying, just set the temperature to 60-80 C and it is dry in no time.
Diluted windows washer is perfect before each PETG print to avoid a part getting stuck to the smooth build plate (not necessary on textured). I wipe the build plate with it using a melanin sponge (also good for TPU). Ammonia fumes are bad for brass (nozzle) and should be avoided as it makes it brittle. Most windows cleaner works, even cheap ECO friendly without perfume and additives - I am allergic to them, so I know...
If you decide on printing a lot of PETG, as I do, I recommend replacing the nozzle with a nickel coated brass nozzle. Mine is from Micro Swiss and has a TwinClad XT coating (Teflon like) that makes it very easy to clean
E3D and others also makes coated nozzles but I have only experience with the ones from Micro Swiss.
I have never used a brass brush to clean the nozzles as the coated ones is so easy to clean.
Have a look at my models on Printables.com 😉
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
In these hard to get alcohol times, IPA is not really necessary. The pure 99% IPA has a hard time removing finger grease anyway.
I have stopped using IPA for de-greasing, replacing it with hot water and dish wash soap. Followed by a quick drying to avoid rust and only touching the edges when handling. TIP: Use the hot bed as a final drying, just set the temperature to 60-80 C and it is dry in no time.Diluted windows washer is perfect before each PETG print to avoid a part getting stuck to the smooth build plate (not necessary on textured). I wipe the build plate with it using a melanin sponge (also good for TPU). Ammonia fumes are bad for brass (nozzle) and should be avoided as it makes it brittle. Most windows cleaner works, even cheap ECO friendly without perfume and additives - I am allergic to them, so I know...
If you decide on printing a lot of PETG, as I do, I recommend replacing the nozzle with a nickel coated brass nozzle. Mine is from Micro Swiss and has a TwinClad XT coating (Teflon like) that makes it very easy to clean
E3D and others also makes coated nozzles but I have only experience with the ones from Micro Swiss.I have never used a brass brush to clean the nozzles as the coated ones is so easy to clean.
Ok, thanks for the heads up !!
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
Note, for those in the US, TEquipment has plenty of spray-on electronic IPA stock, which works like a charm:
https://www.tequipment.net/MG-Chemicals/824-450G/Cleaning-Fluids,-Degreasers/?v=0
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
I have another important question :
I'm planning on placing my printer in the attic,
that's the best place for the moment.
Back when we first moved into the house, the attic floor was all concrete and we put wooden beams with chipboard on top.
All the chipboard is 95% leveled out I guess.
But when you walk on the attic, you hear the chipboard creaking.
So if I either put the printer on a Ikea Lack table or on my workbench,
will it be sturdy enough ? Because these printers probably vibrate like hell and I'm guessing a not so sturdy floor,
will affect the print tremendously.
I mean if I grab the work bench (wooden, very heavy) I can shake it with my hands,
so the printer would also be shaking ( allthough maybe smaller shakes ),
so my question is :
is this a good enough place for my printer then ?
Thanks for the replies !!
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
Work bench is fine.
These things work well in the Lack enclosure, which is about as flimsy as you get. They are just a shell over cardboard.
Don't expect to see your printer bouncing around. It doesn't. Very similar vibrations to an ink jet printer.
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
[...] So if I either put the printer on a Ikea Lack table or on my workbench,
will it be sturdy enough ? Because these printers probably vibrate like hell and I'm guessing a not so sturdy floor,
will affect the print tremendously.
Impact on print quality may be less of an issue than your sanity if you get some resonant vibration going through the whole house!
Stefan of CNC Kitchen has videos on this topic that are well worth watching:
Key points are:
- The trick to reducing printer mechanical noise is to increase mass.
- Mounting the printer on a heavy surface such as a 17x17 inch paver stone adds mass.
- Acoustically coupling the printer to the mass maximizes the vibration dampening effect.Do not isolate the printer from the base. Felt non-isolating feet work well.
- De-couple the printer mass from the resonating surfaces. Isolating foam or Sorbothane feet work well to keep any remaining vibration from being transmitted into the flat supporting surfaces.
After moving my Mk3 to an open audio rack, I was not happy with the low rumbling vibrations emanating from the cabinet. I mounted my printer on a finished 17x17 inch paver stone (others have found some very nice marble cutting boards that should work well) with felt feed coupling the printer to the paver mass, and 9 Sorbothan isolation pads isolating the paver mass from the cabinet. The printer is nearly silent now and I have to look to see if it's printing most of the time.
and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
Sounds like you are saying the bench is a bit shaky. Can you fix the bench to the wall? or something solid?
i3 Mk3 [aug 2018] upgrade>>> i3MK3/S+[Dec 2023]
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
Sounds like you are saying the bench is a bit shaky. Can you fix the bench to the wall? or something solid?
Sure, I can shake the bench, but that takes some effort. But all the people that have the Ikea Lack enclosure don't seem to have a problem ? That table, I imagine, is very shaky compared to my bench.
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
I'm currently looking at workbenches.
My current workbench is a bit too small for the 3D printer.
Which ones do you guys have, I'm looking for the most sturdy one.
On top of that I'm going to put the Ikea Lack enclosure.
There are so many, how can I know which one is good ?
Maybe this one ? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mc-Timber-Products-ltd-UPSTAND/dp/B077LBFP9Z/ref=sr_1_86?dchild=1&keywords=workbench&qid=1589042169&sr=8-86
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
I also read that the dimensions of the mk3s are :
55×40×50 cm; 21.6x15.7x19.6 in (D×H×W)
But what about the bed ? How far does it move forward and back,
and with that in mind, what are the dimensions then ?
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
Keep in mind that the MK3S fits comfortably inside the Lack enclosure with the doors closed. That includes all table movement.
Use the Lack table dimensions as something plenty big.
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
I would go with the kit to learn about rebuilding it after fixing it.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
Keep in mind that the MK3S fits comfortably inside the Lack enclosure with the doors closed. That includes all table movement.
Use the Lack table dimensions as something plenty big.
Yeah was thinking the same thing, but wanted to be sure.
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
finding alot of workbenches online, but not sure which are the sturdiest...
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
I'm thinking about this one.
120cm wide x 60cm depth x 84cm height.
48kg weight
Seems sturdy at least.
More info and models on their website.
RE: 3D newbie - Kit or Pre-assembled printer ?
Hi I was in exactly the same position, which way do i go?
for me it was a once in a life time to buy some quality and reliability, well more of that later.
i had been printing for about 6 months before i decided to get a prusa.
in the end i chose to have the factory build it as i was in the middle of moving house, no time to set it up properly.
it came and was very pleased for a couple of weeks, the things started to go wrong.
the filament was boiling and you could not print any thing as all you got was way over temp on pla even when turned down to 165
got in touch with prusa, after many emails and live chats which got no where. I bought a complete new hot end and fix it.
all good you would think.... no in the hot weather i was getting min temp error, saying it too cool to print, it was 28c!
again email and live chat, this time they said the would have the printer back for repair.
so it went back got fixed.
the report that came back said it was put together wrong... they built it! Still dont know what was wrong
dont get me wrong i am happy it got fixed, and now its reliable, was it worth the extra money no i dont think it was
i am not having a go at prusa, but its just one of them things that happen
if i had the chance again i would buy the kit