Printer due - advice and tips please UK  

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

My build is now complete - thanks for all the guidance in this thread!

Apologies Mick for hijacking, but a few points to note:

Upon opening the box, the very first sheet I saw was an apology for errors in the printed build manual you get in the box. Apparently some of the coloured arrows are missing from the graphics?! lol Good start I thought!

Anyways, I used an iPad and the online guide. Its much better since you can zoom into images etc, which I did do in order to see things more clearly on a few occasions. While the comments do certainly help, don't get too hung up on them. A lot of them are people complaining about missing parts or how things are too tight etc. Of course, don't ignore them completely either - skim read them - as there are some useful tips too, such as using an AA battery to push bearings into place in the Z axis holders etc. 

Talking of parts - it was spot on. Nothing missing at all for me and didn't have to use the spare parts bag at all. 

Tolerances for inserting nuts etc into printed parts are very tight, but they do work. At times I inserted the nut a little then insert a screw from the opposite side to pull the nut into place. This works wonderfully. Just be sure not to overtigheten as you can break the plastic parts if not careful!

When reading the guide, read forward a few steps just to see what's coming up. Then go back to the current step and continue. It just gives you an idea of what's coming up. Do try to following everything to the letter though.

The frame is an easy section - I rest the main frame on the side of the table, and then let the 'legs' hang down as I screwed them into place. Don't get too hung up on making sure its dead level. Tighten screws diagonally and I found once done it was perfect, with no wobble etc at all once the feet were on. 

The extruder section, while daunting, isn't actually too bad. Again, read ahead, and follow everything to the letter. Skin read comments. 

The worst part for me was the electronics and main board. It gets messy and very fidgety getting everything neatly in the box! So much so, that I gave up with cable timing them inside the box and shoved it all in before closing the cover! When it comes to the cover, the guide says to install the hinged cover first. I ended up removing this and getting the board and all cables connected first, then installed the hinges and the cover. Just gave some extra space to work!

Upon initial power up, all axis tested fine, as did the extruder and bed heating etc. However, there comes a point where the calibration needs to happen in each corner, with some paper beneath. For me, the nozzle would come straight down and hit the bed. I then got a message saying "Calibration Failed. Check the axes and run again".

Several reboots and several attempts and I got the sam every time. 

Flashed the latest firmware - no difference at all.

Raised the Z axis full to the top, and noticed that it would stop around half inch from the top and go no further. I could manually move it up fine though.

Lowered Z axis half way. The Superpinder was connected as light in the top of it came on when near the bed, although I tested by going to the sensor in the settings and then passing something metal beneath it - the value changes between 0 and 1. All that was ok so ruled out the sensor....

I then tried another calibration. Suddenly the Z went right to the top - properly to the top this time - and made a noise (it hadn't done this before). It then came down and correctly started the calibration! Completed successfully. 

My most frustrating part has been getting the right first layer. At first it was way high so lowered the nozzle right down. It was then sticking to the bed fine, but the square it printed at the end wouldn't stick to each other - it would just come apart when lifting it off of the bed. I thought something was up with the nozzle and the plastic coming out too thin, but send my friend a pic and he said the nozzles was still too high! Lowered it down further, further still, and started getting the lines on the box to meet and stick to each other, but the more I lowered further I would get a dip in the middle of the box. hence raised a touch and decided to go ahead with a test print - the Batman logo - which seemed to print fine!

Still some tweaking to go, but Ive printed the batman logo, and the whistle successfully. Printing the Benchy as I write this, and will post first print results in a new thread for any advice etc, rather then derail this one!

Hope all that helps with you build somewhat! Just take your time and read ahead a few steps as you go! Good luck!

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Ifti please don't apologise for joining the topic, it's what they are for and we all benefit from the questions and responses that are posted.

Great news that you have sorted the build and thanks for sharing your experiences. 

Please don't look on this as me owning the thread as it would be selfish to expect all these helpful folk to respond to us individually and I also learn from the responses to your questions, so please feel welcome to add the photos of your initial prints.

Hopefully I will have a successful build and then others can hopefully utilise this thread too  - you never know but in the future we may also be able to share advice. 

Hoping everything carries on along the smooth path you appear to be taking. 

Mick

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Oh 1 more thing - everyone is 100% correct about building completely stock to start with. I'm going to run stock at least a few months. Only thing I will do it as my OctoPi and thats only to use the remote camera so I don't keep running upstairs to check on it every 5 mins! lol

Any questions through your build, just ask. You'll get a quicker response from the experienced guys here then you would on the comments section in the build guide. 

Oh and I didn't touch the gummy bears either! lol - not my thing, so still have a full packet. If you were local you'd be welcome to have mine too - double your reward! haha

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

My first few prints in this thread dude - just thought you could maybe learn from my mistakes so you do not make the same mistakes I do 😉

https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-assembly-and-first-prints-troubleshooting/thoughts-on-my-first-prints-please/#post-631075

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Thanks for sharing your build experience, glad you have everything working as it should!

It will take some time to do a ‘shake-out’ and get all the parts bedded in and working together as they should. But it sounds like you’re off to a great start!

For what it’s worth, you don’t necessarily need Octoprint to connect a camera, unless you want to do time-lapse photos. I use a Ring indoor camera to supervise my prints because that’s the ecosystem I use and it’s all in one app. Any camera that you can view remotely will work fine to keep an eye on your printer. 

At any rate, congrats, enjoy, and happy holidays. 

Cheers

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Posted by: @randym9

Thanks for sharing your build experience, glad you have everything working as it should!

It will take some time to do a ‘shake-out’ and get all the parts bedded in and working together as they should. But it sounds like you’re off to a great start!

For what it’s worth, you don’t necessarily need Octoprint to connect a camera, unless you want to do time-lapse photos. I use a Ring indoor camera to supervise my prints because that’s the ecosystem I use and it’s all in one app. Any camera that you can view remotely will work fine to keep an eye on your printer. 

At any rate, congrats, enjoy, and happy holidays. 

Cheers

You know what, that’s such a good idea using the Ring indoor cam! I have the doorbell and alarm but didn’t even think of using an indoor cam for this purpose! Makes complete sense! Lol

Although I have a Pi 4B now with a webcam and all set up with OctoPrint. I was considering adding a touch screen later on and maybe OctoLapse. Projects for later down the line though 😉

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Although I have a Pi 4B now with a webcam and all set up with OctoPrint. I was considering adding a touch screen later on and maybe OctoLapse. Projects for later down the line though 😉

Oh, you’ll find no end to the projects and add-ons you can do! 😉

Cheers

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

OK, printer assembled - Any tips before I switch it on for the first time?

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Just switch it on and hope the magic smoke doesn't get out!! 

Seriously if you have followed the impressive build instructions to the letter, I would think it is unlikely that anything disastrous will happen.  The self test will run and then you want to do the calibration runs. 

The one problem that did beset me, was getting the nozzle height correct, and in the end I had to fallback on printing out multiple base layers and measuring them with a micrometer (20 microns or 8 thou in old money - imperial micrometer used!).  The problem was that I couldn't believe that I had to go up to 1250 'units' when the guides indicated ~400 units.  The printer works well now and I haven't set out to find out quite why I had to raise the figure so high - actually I think that is a negative figure so it is actually lowering the nozzle towards the bed.  I recommend this webpage which is the one that got me sorted me out; I'm not so sure about all the faff of bed levelling, but making sure that the print bed is clean is also imperative - hot water and washing up liquid followed by a wipe over with IPA is my recommendation.

https://www.iascaled.com/blog/optimizing-print-quality-on-a-prusa-mk3s/#:~:text=For%20the%20Prusa%20i3%20MK3S,have%20to%20calibrate%20that%20height.

One of the things that I made first - and should really be supplied with the kit - it the simple Prusa tool for checking the belt tensions.  After 9 months I did have to re-use it as the Y axis was reported as being below calibration, by which time of course I had forgotten where the Y adjustment was so keep the assembly book !

Rob   

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Check your belt tension one more time. 

Quick check of all bolts etc to ensure they are all snug. 

Try to level the x axis by hand as much as you can so its level on both z axis motors.

Check to ensure the SuperPinder sensor is slightly higher then the nozzle - not level with the nozzle!

Otherwise, as mentioned above, start her up and proceed through the calibration process!! I find getting the 'squish' right a bit of a chore and my most frustrating part, but otherwise you should be good to go. 

Recommend the batman logo on the SD Card as your first print (try slicing it yourself) as its a good one for checking your Z-level is right etc. 

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

I have managed to get the printer working, though there were a couple of snags. First one was the thin wires of the heatbed snagging when it moved to the rear, and secondly the Z axis wasn't getting calibration to start with. I tried it a couple of times then realised it had not taken it to the top so moved the Y axis near the top and tried again – which worked.

I have done a couple of prints, though dialling in the Z access was more than I expected. I did the Batman logo and also the tree frog, and both seemed to go OK.

Now onto greater things!!!

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Excellent! Glad all went well!

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Good job, enjoy your new printer!

Cheers

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

I have just turned my printer on and I have a message on the LCD stating Err: MINTEMP

The temperatures are thermometer (Nozzle temp) 11/0 and the "H" (Heatbed temp) 14/0

Will this mean the printer wont function until the heatbed has warmed up? The printer is in a cooler room and today has been cold, but I thought the printer would heat itself to the correct temperature before it starts?

So in this situation, do I need to warm the printer up with a hair dryer or something warm on the heatbed, or should the printer heat itself and I have an issue?

Thanks as always for the help.

Mick

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

The MINTEMP error (written sometimes as min temp) occurs when the temperature readout from the heatbed thermistor or hotend thermistor drops below a certain amount within a certain time frame. It is a safety featurethat prevents the printer from overheating in case of a faulty thermistor because, by default, the printer is set to balance out any heat loss by pumping more power into the heat bed or hotend heater cartridge.

Source : https://help.prusa3d.com/article/mintemp-error-and-mintemp-bed_2169

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Posted by: @mick-4

So in this situation, do I need to warm the printer up with a hair dryer 

Yes

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Many thanks folks, I couldn't understand why it had this feature.

I managed to overcome it by holding the removable plate against a radiator. When it was warm I put it on the bed and it transferred enough heat to bring the temperature to a suitable level, so all good.

The learning curve continues. Next to figure out how to load files from printables to the printer!!

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

Well my printer is up and running but has not seen a lot of use yet. Most of that is me not having the 3D drawing sorted yet, but that will come.

However, I have made some parts that may also be useful for some colleagues and wondered how to assess the base cost of printing. I have tried doing a search but wasn't able to find an answer. If there is such a thread already, could someone post a link?

I am not actually trying to make money for the parts but giving them awY at my expense will soon become a bit annoying. 

As always, thanks in advance for your help.

Mick 

PrusaSlicer gives you an estimate of the base cost of the filament used - as long as the price per kg is entered and kept up to date in the filament profile.

Power is a relatively small cost, about the same a running  lightbulb.  Machine time is a grey area but not really worth charging for.  Failed prints become very rare with experience but factor in a small percentage in case, say 3-5%

Your time is the most expensive part - perhaps just the time spent slicing but maybe a lot more if you are designing the parts to order ... initially guess but in time you will learn how long all the routine operations take and the the design time is the dominant variable.

Having written that, I no longer charge unless someone specifically requests a filament I don't have, then I have them pay for a spool - which means I profit by however much is left over after their job.

But my commercial printing (I am semi retired so most is just my hobby) is mostly servicing other work maintaining seagoing 'small' vessels - up to about 200 tons dwt so it's a tiny part of the overall figure - and even there I only charge to prevent excessive freeloading.  I am in the lucky situation that I can afford to stack up favours that will be returned in interesting ways:  Provide a part for a fishing vessel and be repaid with a freezerful of prime fish.  Fix a problem on a small superyacht and cruise for a week in a stateroom with gold plated taps in the ensuite.  In the long run I gain more by not charging  but it doesn't always work out; I also fix electronics and mobility aids for the residents of a local sheltered housing group where the standard return for any job is a bottle of cheap wine from the corner shop, 'though that's not why I do those jobs.

Cheerio,

RE: Printer due - advice and tips please UK

@diem - Interesting that you don't count in the printer time as like any piece of machinery it will have maintenance costs and a finite life.  OK we then enter the hobby v business arena and from your stories I can then see the benefits you are gaining - and could well be far in excess of anything that you charged; it might be seen that you are in a 'golden' opportunity environment !!!

I would have thought that amortising the cost of the printer over 6 to 10 years, depending on how hard it is going to be used, would be valid. But you then find of course that that is only working out at <40p  a day (based on £800 for the printer) at the best which a shed load of fish/golden taps in the ensuite can hardly match.

Rob