PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet  

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

I have the same problem here.
My second print with the Prusa, I have cleaned with the wipe in the box. 

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

This veteran printer,does things which are frowned upon by Prusa

I wash both my smooth and textured build plates. With dishwash soap and hot water. Rinse with hot water and dry with a clean dry plain paper towel.

No other surface preparation...

I have been printing narrow items 55 at a time. Straight onto the build plate.  As belt and braces. I did add a 2mm wide 0.2mm thick strip through the middle of  11 models in each of 5 strips To stabilise the models because they are tall and narrow

Regards Joan

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Posted by: joan.t

This veteran printer,does rhings which are frowned upon by Prusa

I wash both my smooth and textured build plates. With dishwash soap and hot water. Rinse with hot water and dry with a clean dry plain paper towel.

No other surface preparation...

I have been printing narrow items 55 at a time. Straightconto the build plate.  As belt and braces. I did add a 2mm wide 0.2mm thick strip through the middle of  11 models in each of 5 strips

To stabilise the models because they are tall and narrow

 

 

Regards Joan

And you don't use isopropanol?

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Alcohol must be used correctly.  If you use a small amount on a paper towel, and your fingers aren't perfectly clean, the alcohol grabs the oils from your fingers and moves it to the bed ... but in a very fine layer you can't really see.

To best use alcohol to clean, you need to wear gloves, use plenty of alcohol, and do several passes with fresh towels every pass.  

Soap and water works best because you use gallons of water to rinse.  I doubt you use that much alcohol to rinse.

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

ps: as an FYI, you have a Powder Coated sheet, not what is commonly referred to as a PEI sheet.  The PC sheets use a PEI material called Ultem that is sputtered on for texture rather than an actual smooth adhesive sheet applied to to the spring steel.   Small minor distinction, but worth keeping in mind when asking for help.  PC requires slightly different tricks than PEI.

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Posted by: joan.t

I wash both my smooth and textured build plates. With dishwash soap and hot water. Rinse with hot water and dry with a clean dry plain paper towel.

No other surface preparation...

This is a good alternative to know and in a way reassuring! But, I'm certain I had a properly clean surface...

Posted by: Tim

As Joan says.  Clean is essential.  Also - the PC sheet needs a bit lower layer 1 compared to the PEI sheet; this is to ensure the surface texture is fully filled.  It also helps with adhesion.  The bottom of the pug looks under extruded (nozzle too high for layer one). You could change Live-Z another -25 or even -50 um and see if that helps.  You do not want any spaces between extrusion tracks - they should be firmly welded together and almost invisible.

I think this was the majority of my issue. I adjusted the z another -65um. I also moved the printer upstairs where it is warmer. (I had it sitting on the floor near a door that may have had a draft). Pleased to say that I printed another PRUSA nameplate and the Benchy without any lifting from the build plate.

Also, I think the online guide / manual lead people with PC sheet astra here. I was using the pictures to determine what was to low (normal PEI sheet) and the difference is confusing. I should have known better as I've printed on FlashForge Finder's textured surface for a year and I knew to really mash the PLA of the first layer down into the texture.

Thanks for the patient responses,

Russ

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

I have tried to ajust my Z but didn't work to good. Then I have washed my PC and that fixt te problem. Thanks a lot!

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Posted by: Tim

ps: as an FYI, you have a Powder Coated sheet, not what is commonly referred to as a PEI sheet.  The PC sheets use a PEI material called Ultem that is sputtered on for texture rather than an actual smooth adhesive sheet applied to to the spring steel.   Small minor distinction, but worth keeping in mind when asking for help.  PC requires slightly different tricks than PEI.

I realized that distinction after submitting my post, but am unable to figure out how to edit the title!? Thanks for the extra explanation!

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Both of these printed straight on the washed build plate, no isopropanol, no glue, no nothing, bed temp 70C. 1st layer 215C, remaining layers 210C

these models were printed on textured buildplate

the tags were removed with a noga deburring tool

less than £4.00 on ebay.

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Do you use the de-burring tool to remove the first-layer "elephants foot" from around the parts? I just watched a video of it being used on aluminum so it seems really sharp for cutting plastic.

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Hi there 

My pla prints won't stick to the PC sheet.

My question is that people say to clean the sheet with dishwash soap and water but in prusa site it says do not use water. Can I have a clear answer please 

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Hi Kisao, 

there is no clear answer.

I have several powder coated build plates from Prusa, they have all been washed with Dish Soap, rinsed with clean, hot water and dried immediately with clean paper towels, and they all work with PLA. other people use other preparations with different levels of success. 

each party will claim their own process is the only true solution to the problem...   so take Your pick!

These parts were printed in PLA, and they have minimal contact area. 
I used 70C for the bed temperature... and otherwise standard generic PLA settings

regards Joan

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Posted by: @kisao-lator

[...] My pla prints won't stick to the PC sheet.

My question is that people say to clean the sheet with dishwash soap and water but in prusa site it says do not use water. Can I have a clear answer please 

As @joantabb says, do what works. The reality is that there's effectively no warranty on the textured powder-coated sheets. Contact support and they're likely to quickly respond with something along that lines of "they're consumables". This means that you want to try to use the manufacturer-recommended cleaning procedure (91%+ isopropyl alcohol), but if you've calibrated your Live-Z and are still unable to get good adhesion -- particularly with PLA -- there's really no reason not to try other measures. My experience sounds very similar to Joan's in that a wash with Dawn and drying with plain paper towels works amazingly well with most PEI surfaces.

Some folks have even resorted to buffing the sheet with a ScothBrite pad, though I wouldn't use anything more abrasive than a 3M 7445. Definitely a last resort. Unfortunately, even those measures didn't suffice for my Prusa textured sheet. A wipe with acetone helped, but only a bit. I was unable to get good adhesion even with PETG, so have decided not to bother and ditched the Prusa sheet for one that works as advertised. I've been printing heavily over the last 2 weeks and have only washed that thing twice.

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

@bobstro @joan et al.

I have had fairly good success using 91% IPA but here is my little trick.  I did wash the PC sheets (I have 2), with soapy water once to clean them up and then only Alcohol.  What I do is FLOOD the sheet with IPA and let sit for as long as it will stay on the sheet.  Then I wipe it off is a swirling motion.  All done with a NEW blue paper shop towel wipe that I throw away after one use.  I ONLY handle my plates with white cotton gloves and clean hands.  I also rotate the plate from top to bottom and switch between plates with each print.  I run my printer almost 24x7 this way and though I mostly do PETG I mix in PLA quite a bit.  I have no adhesion problems and prints have a nice imprint of the plate on the bottoms.  Smaller parts I will use a brim, Unlike Joan.

So here is what is happening, AFAIK, oils from hands and plastic are left as residue on the plates EASILY making the next print not stick well.  Since I flood the sheet and let the IPA stay on there as long as I can, I am using the liquid contact time to release the grease.  I have only washed my plates once since I got them and have been using them steadily for over 6 months straight.

Just my added 2 cents worth.

Robin

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Posted by: @big-bird

[...] So here is what is happening, AFAIK, oils from hands and plastic are left as residue on the plates EASILY making the next print not stick well.  Since I flood the sheet and let the IPA stay on there as long as I can, I am using the liquid contact time to release the grease.  I have only washed my plates once since I got them and have been using them steadily for over 6 months straight.

Robin, appreciate your post. Suffice to say, I tried multiple rounds of cleaning the thing with no success. The "other brand" textured sheet worked exactly as expected and has been a workhorse, as have my smooth PEI sheets.

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

@bobstro

Any chanced you could message me that other model sheet? I only have the textured sheet from prusa and its not doing the job 🙁

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

I got that linke @bostro. Thank you! And the dishsoap method worked for me as well @joantabb. Thank you both for better support than I had received elsewhere.

RE: PLA not sticking to PEI Sheet

Cheers Richard, 

We do our best. 

Some things sound odd, but, I would never suggest something that I wouldn't do with my own printer!  

regards 
Joan