While I'm waiting, some questions... (Adhesives, Glass, etc)  

Re: While I'm waiting, some questions... (Adhesives, Glass, etc)

I've been working my way through the included samples over the past week since I finished my Mk2 upgrade. I started with PLA and now I'm working with PETG. Ever since I worked through my nozzle height issues, both have been sticking like champions. I did need to add a little glue once for the tree frog, but didn't need when I printed it again later (Josef himself did say you may need a little glue when printing small surface-area parts, so that wasn't surprising).

Even though I haven't used it much yet, I have a theory that PETG is going to prove to be my replacement for ABS. It is equally sturdy, doesn't smell & doesn't warp as much. The biggest downside to it is that it sticks to itself more than PLA or ABS, so if you print something with supports they will likely be harder to remove. I've had good luck with the Sainsmart PETG off Amazon, but I just ordered two rolls of Esun PETG, so we'll how that goes soon.

Good luck with your new printer!

Re: While I'm waiting, some questions... (Adhesives, Glass, etc)

Greetings everyone!

Quick background: I'm a newer 3D printing person. Have another printer and had descent results but quickly surpassed it's limitations and material type for what I'm doing. Loads of fun. (No heated bed, smaller print area, slow as molasses) I've been involved with metal casting for decades and part of my processes involves prototyping. FDM printing has finally reached the levels I need for the work I'm doing and even with the lower end printer I already have, have made refinements and tweaks that generated satisfactory results. I'd even venture to say I made the printer through luck or persistence do alot better than I was told it could pull off. Thats great.

I spent a deal of time going through everything out there information wise and thats why I ended up here and choosing to step up to PR's MK2 printer. Being involved in other various areas of tech made open source appealing as well.

Now, I have desire and interest in other materials, probably ABS and maybe some of the exotic blends, but primarily ABS and PLA. Seeing the PEI bed surface listed as "no glass, no glue, no ABS juice" yet after scanning the forum I'm seeing frequently the use of such adhesives seems to still be being used. Am I missing something? I'm all about making sure I have the right materials on hand and have no problem with that. It might be wording but I also saw someone mention "supplied glass heatbed top" and "supplied glue/juice" in a couple threads and it made me wonder if I again missed something? Does the kit or factory built supply that stuff?

Of course I'm going to be printing everything under the sun at one point, but primarily I'm doing smaller pieces like jewelry items. (You'll see some of the crazy stuff I do at some point, I promise!) 😉

Should I/Do I need to consider adding glass/use adhesives if just working with PLA and ABS to start? Just trying to make some sense out of perhaps, an overwhelming amount of information. Thanks for reading folks.

I'm going to take a guess as to what the other 3D Printer you are talking about is: Fabrikator Mini.

I also have a Fabrikator Mini. I did a few upgrades to it already, such as adding a heated bed and adding an LCD with SD card support. I'm going to point you to another article I've written here in the forums that may be of some help to you. While you sound more experienced than the Makerbot user, I think some of those Youtube videos can help you as well. On the 3 Youtube channels I list, I have watched every video on each one of those channels. I learned quite a lot. Granted, most of them don't discuss PEI as a print bed surface. I think PEI is a surface that started getting noticed as a good print bed surface around the beginning of this year.

The MK2 was not my first choice when it came to a 3D printer, but it was in a price range that I could afford. I currently do not print ABS and probably never will with my MK2 just because of the fumes factor and because it is an open frame printer. I have printed more than just PLA with my printer. My current go to filament right now is white ColorFabb PLA/PHA. Once I verified that the model prints well with that filament, I consider printing that same model in a different material. I do primarily print in PLA, but I have also used ColorFabb HT and find it is a decent material with some ABS like properties without nasty fumes.

I do have Hairspray and Gluestick. I have never had to use either of these products to make my prints stick to the PEI surface. I have had to use a raft under a few occasions just because of the low surface area that was touching the bed. The print bed material is that of a Printed Circuit board. I know some other printers use glass or aluminum. I have not had any major issues with my printer since I have received it, just some minor ones. I purchased a prebuilt printer, and am now wishing I purchased the kit just so I could have had the tools to maintain the printer. My printer did come with a glue stick, but I have not needed it.

If I am correct and you are talking about the Fabrikator Mini, Chuck Hellebuyck has had great success print ABS on such a printer. I do recommend you check his videos out.

Re: While I'm waiting, some questions... (Adhesives, Glass, etc)

I should have probably came out and said I had a M3D. 😉

That aside, it's served it's purpose for testing smaller things and me getting my feet wet. Ive looked at some of the ABS alternatives and intended on moving between some of those options as well. I have shop space in multiple locations and intended on a fume collection system as I have broad experience with fumes. (Blacksmithing, Casting/Foundry, Leather, Painting, to name a few) But if a alternative that can match or exceed ABS when I need it, I'm all for that.

Same goes for exotic filaments like wax, wood and carbon fiber- being a caster with multiple avenues for metals I dont see me looking into the metals at all. Ive read up on the various requirements for those, and I intended on working up to those once I learn the machine. Pretty well used to Octoprint & Cura but I want to give Josef's default setup/slic3r a go. I also already have Simplify3D but getting it to work with the M3D is a waste of time in my view at this point. I progressively try everything by nature but always go with recommended until I'm comfortable I have it working then push limits.

Thanks for all the responses so far, I'm always interested in takes and whatnot.

Re: While I'm waiting, some questions... (Adhesives, Glass, etc)

It's not a "single solution for everything" just yet.

There are a lot of tradeoffs.

How important is PEI sheet integrity to you? You can raise temps and control how much the print sticks, but the higher you go, more you risk damaging your PEI sheet.

Are you making your own models or just printing other people's crap? There are certain tricks you can use to increase adhesion if you control the model.

How much postprocessing are you willing to undertake? The slicers can just slap an arbitrary brim on your part, although that means you'll be cleaning brim off all your parts.

Or you can squish the Hell out of your first layer, but that means again, you'll be cleaning an effective brim off all your parts (time) unless you counter-chamfer (which would imply you control the model).

Or can you tolerate an ugly underside finish caused by a raft?

You have to specify where your pain points are.

Even though I haven't used it much yet, I have a theory that PETG is going to prove to be my replacement for ABS. It is equally sturdy, doesn't smell & doesn't warp as much. The biggest downside to it is that it sticks to itself more than PLA or ABS, so if you print something with supports they will likely be harder to remove. I've had good luck with the Sainsmart PETG off Amazon, but I just ordered two rolls of Esun PETG, so we'll how that goes soon.

PETG is also nearly 40% heavier than ABS.

Re: While I'm waiting, some questions... (Adhesives, Glass, etc)

I do all my own work via a myriad of software, ranging from tinkercad for simple geometry/basic forms to ZBrush, and a host of things in between.

Ive become familiar with tweaking the heck out of the geometry and tested a range of settings mainly for surface finish. The theory here is ultimately I knew I'd have cleanup work but when I do things traditionally as a sculptor, so far things that took substantial amounts of time have been trimmed from hours or days to hours and even minutes because of me finally bringing my digital art know how into the 3D fold.

What shocked me was after really beating up the basic printer here (even re-machined a near .25 tip vs the stock .40) I managed a surface finish on some of my prints that barely had any layer differences; in other words, some came out smooth enough to use in the second step of my intended process which is molding them for wax injection without any surface prep. After looking at hundreds of examples, I initially had reservation about using fdm at all, or knowing I'd have some cleanup. I'm pretty sure I can keep myself minimal just with what Ive done so far. It s also what thankfully, stopped me from just jumping into a resin based system because I really wasn't wanting that headache yet. (laughs) Me and sticky stuff do not get along because Im constantly multitasking in my studio.

I'm not beyond prepping the build surface, but the PEI sounded more up my alley because most of the parts I'm doing aren't being subjected to adverse conditions beyond sitting in a mold long enough to cure- that said, Im probably sticking with easier filaments for the most part. Of course I'll be cranking out stuff for play as well, who wouldn't. I had a hard enough time focusing on what I was there for just browsing the work other people have done on just plain cool stuff. Thanks to all this I can see a new addiction in the future but for now, work first.

Re: While I'm waiting, some questions... (Adhesives, Glass, etc)

I print pretty much all my models, (in PLA, ABS and PETG) with no bed prep on the PEI surface. (about 95% of my prints)

If you ran across posts regarding glass and supplied ABS juice it was probably older posts addressing the Mk1 printer. (which had a glass bed)

The only time ive had to use glue (simple elmers purple glue stick) on the PEI surface was with a couple models that had extremely small surface areas contacting the bed, and could use the extra adhesion. (just as Josef says in the introduction video for the Mk2) Afterwards the glue cleans up real easy with IPA.

Re: While I'm waiting, some questions... (Adhesives, Glass, etc)

That makes sense now regarding the MK1 and glass being mentioned.