Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
Hi,
I know this is not really just a Prusa specific question I apologize for that, but still Prusa sells materials as well its not totally off topic.
So since not all of us have a maker-room at hand, especially not one with a ventilation, meaning the proposed air change of 3x the volume of the room in one hour. Some of us just have a flat, can not modify much the space, can not leave windows open for half a day or longer. And as well people are having the printers next to them on the desk they model the obejcts, so I think this question is quite valid.
Does any one here did the work already to analyze the PLA brands to tell which manufacturer has a less harmful material? I'm not talking about any other than PLA since materials releasing styrene are obvious toxic creators, no need to discus that.
But I found out PLA is not equal PLA, and additives can again add toxic materials. Not sure what the Prusa ones consit of, may be someone from the company can comment here.
I for my self until I get a enclosure to the printer with both active carbon and HEPA filters will not print anything else than PLA, but I have no idea what actually is the less harmful material composition.
To back this topic up, you might take a look on the following references:
more academic facts:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.est.5b04983
you can see that even the for safe considered PLA is emitting UFP (Ultra fine particles) emissions in a magnitude of 10 x 8 per minute. (main emision is Lactide - bening material)
So I thing this question to be valid, sure it might better placed on a generic 3d forum, fell free to link here any other that already covered this topic, but to be honest I did not really found much details on the internet either, that would be detailed enough while at the same time not academic.
While the most you find is the simple PLA is not toxic, ABS is toxic, which is a oversimplification.
So any one of you here did care so far? Any one recommending a special brand of PLA that is proven to be designed as less possible harmful?
I'm not really talking here about the printed parts right no one with common sense will chew on them, or print mugs. So lets focus on the while printing emissions.
If any one of you did spend the time to analyse the brands, let me know I'm very curious. Sure would l have a make-room or workshop, that is where the printer would be, as well sure as soon as I'm able I build a filtered enclosure, but still even then I would still consider the chemicals that are emitted during print.
Looking forward to your comments 🙂
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
I think opinion is still very mixed on how dangerous 3d printing is, with no hard scientific evidence either way.
However, ABS is definitely bad and PLA is a lot safer. I have my printer up in the loft where nobody resides and a window open. I wouldn't operate it in the same room as people.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
I took the route of disposing of all my ABS, because it was affecting my chest.
At the moment I use only PLA and PETG.
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
the scientific evidence is in the article from Illinois Institute of Technology, just there is no long term study yet.
What I'm missing in the stuty is a relation what does it mean 10 in a magnitude of 8 of particles per minute? Is that much, is it the same I get while walking the street in a city? Or is that like smoking a cigarete, just no relation to what that means.
It seems that it is getting the attention now, found out that http://www.makerbot.com/media-center/2016/02/03/safe-and-sound-makerbot-pla-filament
is at least trying to tell us his PLA is fine, I'm still asking around, from some schools I got the info they measured near the printer in a closed room and where not able to measure any intense values, but so far, no one gave me the data what they actually measured.
Definatelly a topic i will follow much closer, I will for now start any way with just PLA, and I'm already on it to look for a suitable case with ventilation, to ad at least a active coal filter, ideally HEPA filter, but that would requre a high pressure fan, as a usual PC fan will not have the power to push trough a HEPA filter.
That said, this might be the only downsite of the printer.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
An italian filament producer (Filoalfa) published this:
http://www.filoalfa3d.com/img/pdf/analisi-emissioni.pdf
It basically says that (their) ABS is not toxic (in respect of italian laws references).
BTW, i only use PLA and PETG.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
Interesting, the document is in italian, not much telling me, but the page at least here says some positive things http://www.filoalfa3d.com/en/content/15-health-and-safety
still the best would be something like a independent certificication system, some sort of TUV for filament emissions. Not saying it must be mandatory fo the manufacturer, but I for sure would not buy uncertified, but as for now, there is not much options, just to rely on the statement of the manufaturer, and at least support those wo take the time to show they are taking health risks into consideration
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
I have ceased to print with ABS, too much hassle with warping, and my wife complained about the smell. I have tried PETG and Ningaflex , Ngen and newer PLA filaments that are coming online. Not too much issue with those filaments and my printer room now has a ventilator to outside the house.
ABS is a dead Duck.
Nigel
Life is keeping interested and excited by knowledge and new things.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
Yes it seems so, I decided to order schematics for a ventilated acrylic case, as much as ABS is dead, what else can withstand high temperatures? Like for example printing a shower head, or part into the car, like a phone case that will not melt in a car on summer.
I do plan ABS, but only if absolutely needed and only in closed filtered enclosure. Or is there a alternative to ABS, for temperature resistance?
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
Or is there a alternative to ABS, for temperature resistance?
High temp PLA. Plus a load of other filaments now available.
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
The Monday after I spent a weekend printing with loads of ABS, I had to leave work early with an upper airways infection. Now it's entirely possibly the two are completely unrelated, but I'm not taking any chances and only print ABS if it's something that needs to withstand heat (i.e. printer parts)
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
if it's something that needs to withstand heat (i.e. printer parts)
Printer parts can be printed with PLA (According to Josef in a post some months ago).
Peter
Please note: I do not have any affiliation with Prusa Research. Any advices given are offered in good faith. It is your responsibility to ensure that by following my advice you do not suffer or cause injury, damage…
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
Some good info on the topic:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231013005086
http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/3d-printing-fumes-new-science/
TLDR;
Stick to PLA. It looks essentially harmless.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
if it's something that needs to withstand heat (i.e. printer parts)
Printer parts can be printed with PLA (According to Josef in a post some months ago).
Peter
Really I'm surprised to hear that, PLA is not really heat resistant so far I know, so that is quite a surprise, would think more into direction lego plastick ABS, but OK I trust Josef knows what he is doing.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
Some good info on the topic:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231013005086
http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/3d-printing-fumes-new-science/
TLDR;
Stick to PLA. It looks essentially harmless.
That was as well the message I found around, but still I was looking into some datasheets and found out that some PLA has additives that can be toxic as well, it depends on the manufacturer, speaking of which, I found a 100% untoxic PLA, at least it is claimed so:
3DFuel's Algae PLA
since you will with the print basically burn organic material, it will have a stronger smell, and again burned organic material may release harmful particles as well, but I will draw here a line and look for a reasonable real live solution not a Lab clean material, just something I know I can be around with my kids and we dont get unnecessary chemicals into our selfs.
I think the really good message here is the manufacturers do care, sure its crazy expensive, but the more manufacturers will focus on the emissions the more interesting this marked will become the more research will be done, and we get much better materials not just mechanically but as well environmentally 🙂
Nevertheless I will any way print in a filtered enclosure, because its not that much more expensive to have one, and I still reduce the WAF issue at home 😀
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
if it's something that needs to withstand heat (i.e. printer parts)
Printer parts can be printed with PLA (According to Josef in a post some months ago).
Peter
Printed my current camera mount in PLA (screws under the Y carriage), I'd reason most parts bar the extruder and X carriage should be fine with PLA.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
the 3dfuel company looks really interesting with regards to ecological PLA, found a Hemp one
https://www.3dfuel.com/shop/entwined-hemp-filament/
Found the datasheet for that one:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1052/6918/files/MSDS-3DFuel_Hemp.pdf?16435189680248111144
Chemical Name Weight % OSHA Exposure Limits ACGIH Exposure Limits
Polylactide Resin >98 None None
All ingredients in quantities >1.0% (0.1% for carcinogens) that are potentially hazardous per OSHA definitions.
Looking at that it makes a very good impression, just need to keep it below 230 degrees Celsius:
Conditions to Avoid: Temperatures above 446F (230C)
Material to Avoid: Oxidizing agents. Strong bases.
Hazardous Decomposition Products: Burning obnoxious and toxi fumes. Aldehydes. Carbon monoxide (CO).
Carbon dioxide (C02)
May be someone can comment here, but this makes a really good impression for me. What do you think?
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
Or is there a alternative to ABS, for temperature resistance?
Here is one example. It is a modified PLA. You need to anneal the item in an oven to get the extra heat resistance.
http://www.makergeeks.com/rasepla.html
John
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
I read that all FDM printing produces nano particles no matter which filament (PLA, ABS, PETG, etc.). They also produces gases. Some you can smell, some you cannot. The smell, or lack of smell, is no indicator of toxicity.
The small (nano) particles, the article said, are small enough to enter the lungs and then pass directly into the blood stream. Even if the particles are non-toxic, they can accumulate (said the article) in body organs and tissues.
I do not recall reading anything like this regarding cigarette smoking. And I am old enough (71years) to remember when cigarette smoking was actually encouraged by doctors and deemed harmless.
So I'm thinking, when my MK3 arrives, I will treat it with the fear and respect it deserves. I want for it not to burn down my house nor give me, nor my family (and pets), any kind of cancer or disease. For starters I will treat it like a barbecue -- outdoors. I'm envisioning an enclosure and wondering if Prusa might make some sort of extension so the display can be mounted outside the enclosure. I'm considering purchasing the filtered breathing mask I was intending to wear when I started using polyester resin to make things.
here is the first link I read regarding this issue. It brings up several alarming issues. I really have my heart set on getting my MK3 and doing marvelous things with it. However, I really do have my heart set on not being diseased into my remaining years.
https://americanlibrariesmagazine.org/2016/10/11/the-health-effects-of-3d-printing
I'm open to hearing more discussion on this issue.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
I get headaches two hours in when i'm in a room with a printer currently printing something with PLA. It is like passive smoking
It is like passive smoking, all filaments produce gasses and nano particles, so your best best is getting an enclosure.
Two Ikea LACK tables + 4 plexiglass panels + some 3D printet enclosure parts (see thingiverse) + two fans and a HEPA filter.
One weekend looking and shopping for the parts and another weekend later you'll have a good enclosure, and can sit 10 hours next to the thing, with sound and smell dampened.
And you'll ask yourself why the heck you didn't do this in the first place.
P.S.: Fans (with the HEPA filters slapped behind them) are required to get the hot air out of the enclosure, or else the hotend fan cannot cool down the hotend, then PLA wil lcause a guaranteed blockage after an hour or so.
Re: Toxic emissions, any one taking care?
Compared with what people breathe in if living within a large urban area I would say the health risk is negligible.