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gkas
 gkas
(@gkas)
Estimable Member
XL Multi Head color change

Since my 5 head XL seems to be in the somewhat near future, I'd like to get a better handle on using the color/head change options. I have the PrusaSlicer 2.6.0-beta-3 installed and have been using the 2.6.0 beta versions since initial release. I have the XL 0.6 nozzle printer profile installed along with my MK3S profiles.

Is the use of the multi head XL different than the MMU setup as far as painting, color change, etc. go? I'd like to play with the options, but I'm not sure what pertains to only the MMU use. Is there anything published yet on using the multi head XL setup?

thanks...

Posted : 30/05/2023 10:10 pm
jkavalik
(@jkavalik)
Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

I saw some test prints online, nothing about setup, but the theory says it should not be very different.

Model and basic slicing parameters should be the same - multipart or slicer-colored with different extruders assigned etc. The "only" actual difference I see is the tool change operation itself - instead of changing the filament using MMU it just swaps the entire extruder using toolchanger - I expect it to be a bit faster than MMU but not significantly so. And you should still use a small wipe tower probably, to prime the new nozzle properly after each change.

On the Gcode side imho both toolchanger and mmu should be mostly handled by the Tx code.

Posted : 31/05/2023 6:31 am
blauzahn
(@blauzahn)
Reputable Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

I do expect print to print time on the XL to be significantly quicker compared to the MMU. With the MMU, flushing residue of the old filament takes quite a long time. The XL does not need to flush.

By default, my MK3S+/MMU2s takes on average painful 2 minutes for each single color change (PLA to PLA). Please compare this to the few videos of the XL changing filament (eg. Prusa XL at ERRF 2022).

I haven't used my MMU2s for a long time though.

Posted : 31/05/2023 9:11 am
jkavalik
(@jkavalik)
Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

I could have been more specific, I think that the filament swap itself on the mmu is not that slow, but ofc the toolchanger should be a bit faster. Otoh the wipe tower with mmu is the killer and a prime tower for toolchange can be much smaller and can be printed faster (no nozzle cleaning, only couple of priming moves and the perimeter. So yes, the final print times will be definitely much better 🙂

Posted : 31/05/2023 9:43 am
jkavalik
(@jkavalik)
Member
RE:

Ok, I saw a two-head XL printing at MakerFair Prague today and have to say my expectations about toolchange were wrong 😀

I counted ~18s for the entire color change, most of it being a basic shape of a very simple prime tower. The tool change is very fast and priming the nozzle too.

Posted : 10/06/2023 7:25 pm
ssill2
(@ssill2)
Noble Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

boy that sure beats the mmu!   gosh,  the amount of time AND filament wasted doing sizable mmu prints makes me sad.  I'll be glad when my 5 extruder fully assembled ships.  it's going to open up a world of possibilities, at least hope so lol   I'm particularly interested in trying tpu + soluble interfaces.  I'm curious if bovh will be sufficient or we need something more esoteric like aquasys 120

Posted : 10/06/2023 9:08 pm
jkavalik
(@jkavalik)
Member
RE:

Ok, neither forum file upload, nor youtube embed works for me..

So hopefully just a link will

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edit: hm, somethings fishy with the forum here 🙂

Posted : 11/06/2023 11:41 am
Asus1357
(@asus1357)
Trusted Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

While the XL looks like it will be a lot faster than the MMU I still see the prime/wipe waste rather high. Just messing around with slicing on 2.6 beta 4 and the waste tower is larger in filament volume than the print! Perhaps I am missing something? I will keep testing till my XL gets here (end of this year?)

Posted : 11/06/2023 1:26 pm
ssill2
(@ssill2)
Noble Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

it's gotta be less than what the MMU2S is!   I printed a halloween grogu(baby yoda)  the whole print used like 2kg of filament, and the purge block was half of that!

30+ dollars in purged filament kind of sucks lol   the way the XL does it HAS to be more efficient, I don't see how it can't.

Posted : 11/06/2023 1:52 pm
jkavalik
(@jkavalik)
Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

What does the tower look like? I am trying in beta2 and it is the same block that is used for mmu but it is significantly smaller. On the video though you can see a different one, it seems to be something like a single-perimeter cone with a purge-line in the middle (2 nozzle widths it seems).

The model being printed is quite tall, so the cone will be getting quite small on upper layers.

Posted by: @asus1357

While the XL looks like it will be a lot faster than the MMU I still see the prime/wipe waste rather high. Just messing around with slicing on 2.6 beta 4 and the waste tower is larger in filament volume than the print! Perhaps I am missing something? I will keep testing till my XL gets here (end of this year?)

 

Posted : 11/06/2023 1:53 pm
ssill2
(@ssill2)
Noble Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

when I get a little time I might try a reslice of the grogu thing as an xl multi material print and see how the supports look.   I used bvoh as the soluble support interface material in my print.   I hadn't thought of trying to slice before my 5 extruder xl gets here lol,  that's a good idea!

Posted : 11/06/2023 1:56 pm
jkavalik
(@jkavalik)
Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

Trying to slice the model in 2.6.0-beta2:

XL 0.6 single-extruder (0.2 detail), set to two extruders with wipe tower enabled: 12h 3m, wipe tower ~10%

XL 0.6 single-extruder (0.2 detail) single color: 10h 9m

MK3S-MMU2 0.4 (0.2 quality): 29h 24m, tower ~50%

MK3S 0.4 (0.2 quality) single color: 14h  35m

MK4 0.4 (0.2 quality) single color: 11h 23m - will have to update and check the estimate with input shaper 🙂

 

I did not get a snap of the screen, but IIRC the estimated time was around 9-10 hours on the showed print, but the layer height might have been different or something like that, so I cannot be sure if the conical wipe tower is faster or not.

Posted : 11/06/2023 2:07 pm
jkavalik
(@jkavalik)
Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

ok, had to check, even if it should be in the other forum section 🙂

MK4 0.4 - 0.2 IS alpha: 6h 55m

(I wanted to ask about XL IS state/news/anything but my son dragged me to an R2D2 RC bot..)

Posted : 11/06/2023 2:16 pm
ssill2
(@ssill2)
Noble Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

ok just because I was interested I tried reslicing the grogu halloween model as an XL multi material print.

Clearly this will need tuning before it would actually print lol

Posted : 11/06/2023 2:30 pm
Aquaerics liked
ssill2
(@ssill2)
Noble Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

This is probably how I'll try to do this print when the 5 extruder xl comes in.  it's still 1/4 of the filament the version I printed with the MMU2S took also a LOT less time.  The original was 100+ hours

Posted : 11/06/2023 3:16 pm
kubbur
(@kubbur)
Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

i wonder if we can put an mmu on each toolhead and have 25 color prints

Posted : 19/06/2023 4:52 pm
Diem
 Diem
(@diem)
Illustrious Member

I dare say some idiot will try it.  Managing 25 spools and keeping them dry would be a nightmare - far better to use just one filament and a few pots of paint - you can mix them, no need for 25.

Cheerio,

 

Posted : 20/06/2023 1:08 am
MikeH, Asus1357, Georg and 2 people liked
cwbullet
(@cwbullet)
Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

Isn't that the truth?  I have atleast 10-20 spools I need to dry.  

Posted by: @diem

I dare say some idiot will try it.  Managing 25 spools and keeping them dry would be a nightmare - far better to use just one filament and a few pots of paint - you can mix them, no need for 25.

Cheerio,

 

 

--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog

Posted : 23/06/2023 9:54 am
Holck
(@holck)
Eminent Member
RE:

You can try and disable the wipe tower in print settings>multiple extruders, then right click the Yoda object, enable 'wipe options' and "wipe into object"

This should disable the wipe tower and just prime into the infill of the object. Should be perfect for toolhead changes as you don't need to flush the hotend, just prime the nozzle

This post was modified 8 months ago by Holck
Posted : 25/06/2023 9:52 pm
jkavalik
(@jkavalik)
Member
RE: XL Multi Head color change

That can work in some cases, but lot of prints have at least some swap layers where there is not enough infill (sometimes none at all) and that would mean printing perimeters or top infills with improperly primed tools.

Posted by: @holck

You can try and disable the wipe tower in print settings>multiple extruders, then right click the Yoda object, enable 'wipe options' and "wipe into object"

This should disable the wipe tower and just prime into the infill of the object. Should be perfect for toolhead changes as you don't need to flush the hotend, just prime the nozzle

 

Posted : 26/06/2023 6:27 pm
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