RE: Xl extruder stops
[It's been printing trouble-free for about 20 hours.」
At the suggestion of @gik and the support desk, I removed the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR, which stopped the phenomenon of the gear stopping during printing.However, it is obvious that without the COVER CONNECTOR, the connectors are overloaded and will cause future contact failures, so I tried a simple measures.
The aim is to reduce the gap between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and the opening in the Dwarf Cover Base (to make it almost snug).As a means of achieving this, the outer dimensions of the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR were slightly enlarged.The following file was downloaded and enlarged as shown in the attached image. https://www.printables.com/model/449554-xl-printable-parts/files#preview.file.OP5XL
After enlargement, the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR has almost no gap and is no longer shaky at all in both the X and Y directions.I have since tested the output, for a total of 20 hours and about 3 files, with no trouble.
As an additional measure, try adjusting the tightness of the cable between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR.As shown in the attached photo, in the preliminary step of wrapping the cable cover, wrap the appropriate tape around the cable to increase its diameter, then put the cable cover over it, clamp it between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and tighten the screws.Doing it this way will also reduce the play between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and the cable harness, which should reduce the vibration transmitted to the connector even more. (I applied this too)
I wonder if they have made some changes to the plug cover. I recently printed all of the parts in PCCF and that plug was so tight it wouldn't go in. I actually had to remove .1mm from all the surfaces you showed in CAD and reprint to get it to fit. Keep in mind this was when I also reprinted the dwarf board cover out of PCCF as well. PCCF shrinks more than the original PETG parts which I believe was the reason
I think that plug solution makes sense to me and would better explain what's being seen by only some users and not all.
Keep us posted on if this continues to fix your problem.
RE:
Hi guys,
I've been thinking about writing something on the topic again for a long time. The fact is that I keep getting information that either changes or doesn't happen. So I can justify myself when I try to pass on information.
Now to the actual thing:
I now have some 15h+ as well as small and canceled prints behind me. These were various materials, temperatures from 215 to 270. With open or closed enclosure,......
WITHOUT the extruder failure. I removed this PETG “cable kink protection” from both tool heads. I don't want to claim THAT is the solution, but it helps.
I have not reassembled these parts or reprinted them from a different material.
I am still of the opinion that it is not a contact problem but a shielding problem. If you clamp the cables together, there may be an interference signal and then the tool head gets bad signals. In industry, machines with data interfaces have shielded cables.
Only I believe that!!
I can't say how and when Prusa will solve the problem because almost everything I was told hasn't come true in any way.
So everyone has to decide for themselves how they want to move forward or deal with it.
RE: Xl extruder stops
@sailoreric can you try removing that cover from your plug and try again?
RE: Xl extruder stops
Thank you for taking an interest in my solution!
The concept is to prevent misalignment and friction between the cable and the male white connector, or between the male and female connectors, by minimizing the gap between the dwarf board cover and the plug cover and preventing the plug cover from shaking.
As I posted before, I changed the size of the plug cover in FUSION360 and printed it in ASA. The dwarf board cover is still the original PETG.When attaching this plug cover to the connector and inserting it into the dwarf, it is tight as intended, but within an acceptable range.
Instead, you need to be a little careful when removing the connector. While slowly pulling up the connector cover with your dominant hand, press the lock on the white connector with a pointed tool held in your other hand, and pull it upwards in sync with your dominant hand, and you should be able to remove it without putting stress on the connector.
I've been running it continuously for about 35 hours yesterday and today, but the gear stopping symptom has not recurred (so far).Looking at the connector area, the connector cover and the dwarf board cover appear to be perfectly synchronized with each other.
I've uploaded the file to Printables, so please feel free to use it if you'd like to give it a try.（I used Google Translate to translate this so my English may be a bit off. Please forgive me.）
https://www.printables.com/model/1120720-dwarf-connector-cover-a-little-fat
RE: Xl extruder stops
Some data points, maybe they help, maybe not. XL 5 tool with enclosure. Extruder 1 has stopped 3 times.
1. PLA at the end of layer 1, enclosure top half closed.
2. TPU at the end of layer 4 enclosure fully closed.
3. TPU at the end of layer 4 enclosure fully closed. TPU reel was found stalled/obstructed by a flag I had added to watch its rotation remotely.
After #3 I tried restarting the print after a full reset. Disabled bed leveling and got it to restart reasonably, but without the bed leveling it became obvious that starting over would be better. Spent some time with the extruder, and inspected/tightened the cable and connector shell using masking tape as a quick temporary solution. Also noted the location of the extruder reset button (bottom left front) and confirmed I could reset it easily if needed (small allen wrench works well).
Started a new print. Enclosure fully open (top door and bottom). On the first layer I noticed it was having a hard time pulling in the TPU (spotty coverage) for several long passes. Remounted the reel on an old stand that has a center that rotates with the reel rather than forcing the reel to rotate over a fixed post, thereby reducing the force needed to pull the TPU in.
Print has been going 24 hours without issue.
Possible fixes: Connector tightness, reduced heat from enclosure, reduced force pulling filament which may have led to a stall of the extruder gear.
RE: Xl extruder stops
I reprinted the covers in PETG and had the same experience. The plug cover is also much tighter in my case.
[It's been printing trouble-free for about 20 hours.」
At the suggestion of @gik and the support desk, I removed the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR, which stopped the phenomenon of the gear stopping during printing.However, it is obvious that without the COVER CONNECTOR, the connectors are overloaded and will cause future contact failures, so I tried a simple measures.
The aim is to reduce the gap between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and the opening in the Dwarf Cover Base (to make it almost snug).As a means of achieving this, the outer dimensions of the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR were slightly enlarged.The following file was downloaded and enlarged as shown in the attached image. https://www.printables.com/model/449554-xl-printable-parts/files#preview.file.OP5XL
After enlargement, the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR has almost no gap and is no longer shaky at all in both the X and Y directions.I have since tested the output, for a total of 20 hours and about 3 files, with no trouble.
As an additional measure, try adjusting the tightness of the cable between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR.As shown in the attached photo, in the preliminary step of wrapping the cable cover, wrap the appropriate tape around the cable to increase its diameter, then put the cable cover over it, clamp it between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and tighten the screws.Doing it this way will also reduce the play between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and the cable harness, which should reduce the vibration transmitted to the connector even more. (I applied this too)
I wonder if they have made some changes to the plug cover. I recently printed all of the parts in PCCF and that plug was so tight it wouldn't go in. I actually had to remove .1mm from all the surfaces you showed in CAD and reprint to get it to fit. Keep in mind this was when I also reprinted the dwarf board cover out of PCCF as well. PCCF shrinks more than the original PETG parts which I believe was the reason
I think that plug solution makes sense to me and would better explain what's being seen by only some users and not all.
Keep us posted on if this continues to fix your problem.
RE: Xl extruder stops
I used the original file from prusa. In my opinion they made the tollerances tighter
RE: Xl extruder stops
Running 6.2.1 and no love. Prints one layer then stops extruding and decides it wants to do a filament change. Insanity....
I will try removing the plug cover. Not expecting much. The new Buddy board fixed the boot up issue but the printer is still non functional after 7 months, over 40 hours of trouble shooting and several rolls of filament. I can't keep shoveling in and getting nothing in return....
RE: Xl extruder stops
if it wants to do a filament change, that sounds like a different problem. I had that exact issue and had to clean the side filament sensor. if you set the footer to show the filament sensor raw readout numbers it'll probably say that the difference between no filament and filament isn't great enough, meaning the sensor needs cleaning/ disassembly.
RE: Xl extruder stops
6.2.1? You mean 6.2.0 Alpha 2? Try reconnecting and/or new printed parts. You will see it works.
Running 6.2.1 and no love. Prints one layer then stops extruding and decides it wants to do a filament change. Insanity....
I will try removing the plug cover. Not expecting much. The new Buddy board fixed the boot up issue but the printer is still non functional after 7 months, over 40 hours of trouble shooting and several rolls of filament. I can't keep shoveling in and getting nothing in return....
RE: Xl extruder stops
It's been four days since I replaced the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR, and I'm still printing files that I had put on hold when the printer was malfunctioning.The total printing time was about 70 hours, and the tool was changed about 800 times.
The replaced cover is ASA, and the Dwarf Cover Base is still genuine PETG.
Compared to hard materials like ASA or those that contain carbon fiber, I feel like the surface of PETG is a little more flexible. I think that this is what allows the two surfaces to mesh together and stay in place.
RE: Xl extruder stops
I'll throw my hat into the ring of solutions. I printed two large 13hr prints that were 14in x 14in with this solution I came up with. Set screws hold the connector in position and won't let it back out of dwarf cover.
You can use (2) M3 x 8mm or (2) 4-40 5/16 for each extruder.
Make sure you push the connector all the way in so the set screws can insert into the notch on the connector slides.
https://www.printables.com/model/1124941-secure-xl-nextruder-cable-connector-solution
RE: Xl extruder stops
Genius!You win!
I tried to think of various ways to do this other than simply reducing the gaps between parts, but all of the ideas I came up with ended up making the parts more complicated, and I couldn't come up with a good idea.
This is so simple, I think it could be officially adopted!
RE: Xl extruder stops
Thanks! I had a few different ideas but settled on this one. I really wanted to have some integral strain relief on the top of the cover-base but the top prints down on the print sheet so it was going to make the cover too bulky because the entire top of the cover would need to be raised.
I really hope it helps some folks here.
RE: Xl extruder stops
Since Prusa keeps insisting that overheating caused by my homemade enclosure (even though the error also occurs with an open enclosure and without any bed heating) is the reason for the stopping extruder, I decided to print a Nextruder cover door with an opening for a 25mm fan. Initially, I wanted to get the supply voltage from the Dwarf board but couldn't find a suitable spot. For warranty reasons, I decided to pull in new cables through the wire sleeves and to get the voltage from the main connector. This meant that I removed the cables completely from the Printer to pull in the new cables. After reassembling everything, I managed several prints without the extruders stopping so far. I know that this doesn’t mean much, but previously, the extruders couldn't complete any prints.
There are now several possible conclusions I'd like to discuss here:
- The possibility recently discussed here, that the original Dwarf connector covers are not optimal. I think it's also possible that they may be too tight, causing tension on the connectors and pulling them to one side too much so that they are losing contact after a while.
- Do you remember the old SATA hard disk connectors? I often had problems where the hard disks suddenly became unavailable due to these poor connectors. After reconnecting them on both sides, the hard disk would work again for a few more months. After some years, they produced these connectors with springs to hold them better in place, which somewhat solved the problem. I thought that maybe the XL connectors are just like these SATA connectors and, due to a lot of movement or oxidation, they lose contact after a while. Because I reconnected all of them on both sides during the modification, it works again now and will maybe do for a while.
- Due to the cooling of the dwarf board, a part on the board now stays below a critical temperature where it previously overheated.
I do not know which of these or other possible reasons is the cause for the printer working again. I suppose it's the disconnecting and reconnecting on both sides. Maybe you want to try this and see if it makes a difference for you. It's easily and quickly done. If it does not help, I recommend to pull the connector covers a little bit up, so that the connectors have some space.
I hope this helps! 😊
RE: Xl extruder stops
Since Prusa keeps insisting that overheating caused by my homemade enclosure (even though the error also occurs with an open enclosure and without any bed heating) is the reason for the stopping extruder, I decided to print a Nextruder cover door with an opening for a 25mm fan. Initially, I wanted to get the supply voltage from the Dwarf board but couldn't find a suitable spot. For warranty reasons, I decided to pull in new cables through the wire sleeves and to get the voltage from the main connector. This meant that I removed the cables completely from the Printer to pull in the new cables. After reassembling everything, I managed several prints without the extruders stopping so far. I know that this doesn’t mean much, but previously, the extruders couldn't complete any prints.
There are now several possible conclusions I'd like to discuss here:
- The possibility recently discussed here, that the original Dwarf connector covers are not optimal. I think it's also possible that they may be too tight, causing tension on the connectors and pulling them to one side too much so that they are losing contact after a while.
- Do you remember the old SATA hard disk connectors? I often had problems where the hard disks suddenly became unavailable due to these poor connectors. After reconnecting them on both sides, the hard disk would work again for a few more months. After some years, they produced these connectors with springs to hold them better in place, which somewhat solved the problem. I thought that maybe the XL connectors are just like these SATA connectors and, due to a lot of movement or oxidation, they lose contact after a while. Because I reconnected all of them on both sides during the modification, it works again now and will maybe do for a while.
- Due to the cooling of the dwarf board, a part on the board now stays below a critical temperature where it previously overheated.
I do not know which of these or other possible reasons is the cause for the printer working again. I suppose it's the disconnecting and reconnecting on both sides. Maybe you want to try this and see if it makes a difference for you. It's easily and quickly done. If it does not help, I recommend to pull the connector covers a little bit up, so that the connectors have some space.
I hope this helps! 😊
How hot are you running your custom enclosure? I also have one and keep it around 28-30C sometimes for a day and it doesn't overheat. I am just curious.
I think that Prusa support was just throwing parts at the problem (print fans, extruder motors, dwarf boards) with the disclaimer "it seems to take care of the problem for a little while" if one of these things was replaced. Since you disconnect the cable for these replacements, it gets reseated and works for a while again.
After reseating mine, I ran it for a solid 24 hours but I kept seeing the connector creep upwards after a few hours. I'd pause and push it back down.
The cable connector (printed part) is supposed to push down on the white connector and act as a strain relief. What seems to happen is the connector is clamped to the wire sleeve around black wires and slowly creeping up while pulling on the white plug.
Also noted that T1 seems to be the only head repeatedly having it's wire/PTFE loop catching on the one next to it when moving around the lower right of the print sheet.
RE: Xl extruder stops
To me the connector makes sense. That would explain why some had issues and some not. It would also explain why some still had issues even after replacing seemingly everything.
I also agree that Prusa is trying to figure out the issue, and temperature could have been one. I've been involved in lots of troubleshooting, and sometimes you chase the wrong solution. It happens.
RE: Xl extruder stops
How hot are you running your custom enclosure
I usually use it at 36 to 38°C.
RE: Xl extruder stops
I have the same problem on all 5 extruders since 6.2.0. According to the support statement, it is a problem of signal interference for controlling the extruder gearbox when turning on the print fan. This diagnosis is probably correct, because the gearbox actually stops every time the print fan is supposed to start after the first few layers. If I change the settings in the slicer so that the fan is turned on at a higher layer than the last one on the print, the print runs without problems. If I forget to do this while slicing, the filament feeding stops at the 3rd layer, for example. However, turning off the cooling is not a comprehensive solution, although it currently allows me to print jobs. This setting helps me 100%....
RE: Xl extruder stops
I reprinted the covers in PETG and had the same experience. The plug cover is also much tighter in my case.
[It's been printing trouble-free for about 20 hours.」
At the suggestion of @gik and the support desk, I removed the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR, which stopped the phenomenon of the gear stopping during printing.However, it is obvious that without the COVER CONNECTOR, the connectors are overloaded and will cause future contact failures, so I tried a simple measures.
The aim is to reduce the gap between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and the opening in the Dwarf Cover Base (to make it almost snug).As a means of achieving this, the outer dimensions of the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR were slightly enlarged.The following file was downloaded and enlarged as shown in the attached image. https://www.printables.com/model/449554-xl-printable-parts/files#preview.file.OP5XL
After enlargement, the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR has almost no gap and is no longer shaky at all in both the X and Y directions.I have since tested the output, for a total of 20 hours and about 3 files, with no trouble.
As an additional measure, try adjusting the tightness of the cable between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR.As shown in the attached photo, in the preliminary step of wrapping the cable cover, wrap the appropriate tape around the cable to increase its diameter, then put the cable cover over it, clamp it between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and tighten the screws.Doing it this way will also reduce the play between the DWARF COVER CONNECTOR and the cable harness, which should reduce the vibration transmitted to the connector even more. (I applied this too)
I wonder if they have made some changes to the plug cover. I recently printed all of the parts in PCCF and that plug was so tight it wouldn't go in. I actually had to remove .1mm from all the surfaces you showed in CAD and reprint to get it to fit. Keep in mind this was when I also reprinted the dwarf board cover out of PCCF as well. PCCF shrinks more than the original PETG parts which I believe was the reason
I think that plug solution makes sense to me and would better explain what's being seen by only some users and not all.
Keep us posted on if this continues to fix your problem.
cloud1983,
I just applied this potential fix. I'll keep you guys posted. So far printing solid with two 2 hour prints. By the way I submitted an email to support ([email protected]) about this problem. I wanted to get on the "list" of customers experiencing this issue. It's been over a week and I haven't even gotten an acknowledgment that they received my report. From what I've read I really don't want to deal with them over live chat. Does is usually take this long for support to reply?
Carmine