Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread  

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

No one likes waiting for too long, but the old saying that 'good things are worth waiting for' generally remains true I believe.  The 6 Prusa I3 Mk3s+ printers that I use between my home and my work are such great machines.  I find the Prusa Slicer to be SO much better than other open source (and Stratasys Industrial) printer slicers I have used that I cant really even imagine using anything else at this point.  The printers are all used daily, often several prints a day with a variety of engineer users with little to know coordinated print management.  I am so impressed by how well they work and print for how little effort we put into them.

I expect the XL will be a turning point for Prusa.  With all the flexibility this machine -could- have given its tool changer, new doors have been opened for Prusa as to where they will be able to take their know how and innovation.  Not to mention the open source nature makes it likely others will innovate as well.  Our printers will likely turn into other machines as well (maybe laser, router, glue dispense, etcher, pick-and-place part, etc), not to mention multi materials, mixed materials and mixed nozzle types.  I dont think any of us have to worry about the product we will ultimately get, if we can survive the waiting.

As far as more/more frequent updates, it seems to me that they mostly open themselves up to more problems by talking about what they are doing, not to mention helping competitors gain insight into their engineering and challenges.  In the end it will be open source (I assume), but during development Prusa has anadvantage in coming up with new tech/idea that 3D printers want.  It behooves them to keep SOME things closer to their chest.

In the end, if anyone is tired of waiting and really wants their money back, I assume Prusa has been gracious and prompt about refunding.  This is about all you can ask for.  For me, at this point, even if my money disappeared with Prusa for some unforeseen reason, I would not cry to bad as Prusa, in my opinion, has done more for 3D printing and its improvement than just about anyone/anyplace I can think of. 

I guess yes, I am a Prusa fanboi, but I believe they really deserve the fans too.

-Ben

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

try to print ABS on "open air" and see what happen.

on a voron 2.4 where the bed is at the bottom maybe you have some success but on tridents or "XL" where the print area is at the top you will not print any serious abs parts.

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Thanks to Fanboys like you , prusa thinks they can do what they want with the  customers which arent Industrialones. 

What Prusa delivered with the release of the XL is such a shithole.

Think about if big Companies like Apple or other one would do such a thing -  announce a product , give you the choice to order it and then delay  3-4 times with the Information that the important parts changend ( nextruder f.e.). Then at the time of the delivery ( march here ) u didnt know an important thing  like speed, prints which are printed with it, etc. etc.
and then WUUUUSH a competitor enters the market ( bambu ). Every other company would fight for their customers to believe they have the better product. 

But prusa? "Oh look a new video where we can print a guitar, or a flying object, or a fleshlight".. nothing more. No videos of print expamles or other things - just " we will deliver in march the first units .... BUT HEY JUST THE SINGLE HEAD ONES BECAUSE WE ARE TO LAZY TO TESTED THE MULTIHEADS... but hey.. corona, war etc. cheap excuses are here <3...."  and after almost 2 years they are cheap excuses... belive me - i m working in the sector where we have big supply chains... 

Posted by: @ben-4

No one likes waiting for too long, but the old saying that 'good things are worth waiting for' generally remains true I believe.  The 6 Prusa I3 Mk3s+ printers that I use between my home and my work are such great machines.  I find the Prusa Slicer to be SO much better than other open source (and Stratasys Industrial) printer slicers I have used that I cant really even imagine using anything else at this point.  The printers are all used daily, often several prints a day with a variety of engineer users with little to know coordinated print management.  I am so impressed by how well they work and print for how little effort we put into them.

I expect the XL will be a turning point for Prusa.  With all the flexibility this machine -could- have given its tool changer, new doors have been opened for Prusa as to where they will be able to take their know how and innovation.  Not to mention the open source nature makes it likely others will innovate as well.  Our printers will likely turn into other machines as well (maybe laser, router, glue dispense, etcher, pick-and-place part, etc), not to mention multi materials, mixed materials and mixed nozzle types.  I dont think any of us have to worry about the product we will ultimately get, if we can survive the waiting.

As far as more/more frequent updates, it seems to me that they mostly open themselves up to more problems by talking about what they are doing, not to mention helping competitors gain insight into their engineering and challenges.  In the end it will be open source (I assume), but during development Prusa has anadvantage in coming up with new tech/idea that 3D printers want.  It behooves them to keep SOME things closer to their chest.

In the end, if anyone is tired of waiting and really wants their money back, I assume Prusa has been gracious and prompt about refunding.  This is about all you can ask for.  For me, at this point, even if my money disappeared with Prusa for some unforeseen reason, I would not cry to bad as Prusa, in my opinion, has done more for 3D printing and its improvement than just about anyone/anyplace I can think of. 

I guess yes, I am a Prusa fanboi, but I believe they really deserve the fans too.

 

-Ben

RE:

Not a very nice reply, thanks for the nice morning message.  Others of us work in large business sectors with big supply chains too....

I wont bother to reply to you again, but I'll be glad if my post reflects well on Prusa.  They are a 'better than most' company in many ways.

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Hi Chuck, I did say 'I think'.

You are quite right the post on 25 January states 'soon' to ship out multi head test machines so the multi heads should ship one month later, in April (maybe?) and not 2 months after that.

My Transcript: sorry for any mistakes...

Hello everyone.

As you can see, I have two XLs here.

One is a single tool version, the other one has all five tool heads.

I would like to give you an update both about the shipping of the XL and also about the latest developments and changes we've made in the past (two/few) weeks.

So, in December we  sent err, single tool beta units to our external testers and we also continued our internal testing.

But believe me, we really want to ship the machines as soon as possible and while we still wait for some parts, we're using the time to improve the printer.

So let's get to it and talk about specific changes we've made so far.

First and foremost we improved the parts for mounting X carriage and the Y carriages, plus the extruder.

We printed them from carbon-filled polycarbonate, so they are much stiffer.

Err also, the profile, which supports the liner rail over here, is made much stiffer and this helps to eliminate a lot of ghosting and improves the overall performance of the printer.

In the last development diary, I mentioned that we had issues with the suppliers of linear rails.

And I have some good news; because after many months of testing, we finally have two equally good options for the linear rails.

So they will be not a problem in the future.

We also made some changes to the frame and side panels of the printer, because our tests have shown that at certain speeds, the larger side panels can resonate.

Err we are making small optimisations to dampen the vibrations, which err in turn will make the printer much quieter.

If you take a good look at the steel sheet, err you might notice that it looks slightly different than the one we've shown previously.

So, during our testing, we discovered something that is pretty obvious in the hindsight.

Err the part of the sheet extended, err extending over the edge of the headed acted as a heatsink and the heated had a hard time compensating for the heat dissipation.

Right here.

Err so we experimented with different shapes, and err, it still needs to be easily removable, and we ended up with a sheet that looks like this.

The XL is equipped with wi-fi and because there's a good possibility that you will have your machine in a workshop or in a large office where the wireless signal might not be strong enough, we added a large external antenna to make the reception as good as possible. Err of course, these is ethernet as well, but the printer does not require any network access to operate.

Only if you want to. And if you want you can also connect it with Prusa Connect.

We have decided to ship the XL with a 0.6mm nozzle by default, compared to 0.4mm on most machines these days. Err in our opinion, it's a better option for large and durable models. 

But the 0.6mm works great even for smaller models thanks to the recently-ports arachnid in PrusaSlicer.

So err let us know what you think about this?

But we also have other nozzle options available along with a special adapter, so you can use any V6 style nozzle with the XL.

Let's talk about the tool changer now.

Err I have some models over here.

We expect, err one of the most popular combinations will be PLA with water-soluble supports from BVOH or PVA; and the XL can handle these with ease.

There is no cross-contamination in the nozzle; which would compromising the integrity of the PLA model.

And there's no need to wipe excessive amounts of filament to clean the nozzle Just a small priming tower. So the start is sharp on the model.

And; this one is also pretty cool, because you don't always have to use the expensive BOVH for err, water-soluble supports.

Err instead, you can easily combine PLA and PETG like in this case, err because you don't have to dry it out, it's cheap and everyone has it at home.

I also have a classical demo of err, rigid and flexible model; in one go.

The XL is made for all day, every day printing with different in the same print, compared to single-nozzle material switching.

The tool-changer will be soon shipped out to the beta testers.

We needed them first to have the single tool testing done; and now we need them to go through the upgrade path.

The current sate of the market and extremely long lead times in various parts of the world are making things really hard, but we can't blame all delays on it.

We could have done things differently and we are sorry to keep you waiting and keep moving the start of the shipping.

The first single, tool XLs will leave err the factory in March.

We are now starting to put together XL's subassemblies without the missing parts.

In the first few weeks, we're planning to ship just couple of hundred single tool, fully assembled XL's, but the production will increase shortly after that.

As for the multi-tool machines we expect to start shipping them shorty after beta tests, which will take about 2 months.

Err, it is impossible for us; to create shipping tables just right now, because we don't know when and how will people finalise their orders.

But once you pay for the order and finish it, we will give you at least an estimate shipping date.

Now, let's talk about the process of finishing the order.

We will send you an email in advance, that your reservation is now ready to be turned into the final order.

You can edit the shipping address, add more items to your order and select the shipping method.

However, you can't increase the number of XL's, but you can decrease it.

There is no deadline for converting the reservation into an order, right now.

The date of the reservation is decisive, as soon as you pay for it, err, you will jump into the right place in the queue.

If you want to upgrade your reservation from err, a single tool, err into a multi-tool toolhead don't finish your order until we start shipping the multi-tool XLs.

After the shipment of multi-tool printers stats, you will be able to adjust the configuration of the XL, both the number of toolhead, whether err whether it is semi-assembled or fully assembled at extra.

I hope this update answered your questions and give you a better overview of the current situation with the XL.

If you have any questions, please leave them in the comments or tune into the Prusa Live podcast.

Thank you for watching and happy printing.

Posted by: @cwbullet

 

Posted by: @stuartb

Hi Ludodg, I think the XL was first due in June/July 2022. Then because of the chip delay, they quoted November - December 2022. Then said January/February 2023, then March for single and April beta testing the multi-head, which we were told could be 2 months.

To me this means the first singles should ship during this month but as far as I can see here, no order conversion emails have been sent and no further news of this either; so it is now unlikely that the first single XL will ship this month.

I don't know if the multi-head will still start testing in April or if it is tied to the singles starting to ship. Let's say it is not dependent on shipping singles; 2 months of testing would mean June 2023 for the first in line to get the order conversion emails.

No timescales have been given for how long it takes from full payment being made to shipping date, and no prices or times for shipping have been released. No final specifications, no user/build manuals have been shown, no software has been previewed. No enclosure has been shown.

All of us are waiting and buying a product on trust, we kind of know what it should do, we know reasonably well what it looks like, we know how much it costs but not how much it will cost to get it delivered. We have not seen (bar one possible print) any of the Beta testers prints nor have we seen any independent reviews online.

I'll said it again, we are buying on reputation and trust alone. Some Prusa users may accept this but converts to Prusa, I'm not to sure, I for one wanted to get away from 'stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap' printers but the contempt shown by Prusa has, I think broken any trust I had.

Posted by: @ludodg

Many words were spoken… 🙂

can someone remind what timeframe , deliverydate, … was predicted by prusa?

it is long now, that i haven’t heared from the XL. What is the status? Did I miss some news?

 

I took the announcement differently.  The first single heads should ship in March - we have 19 days.  The multi heads would ship 2 months later.  That is not April.  I am not sure where that came from.  

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

 I'm a Prusa fan boy but that shine is wearing off as my Banbu prints and prints and prints. 

I'll probably sell my place in line if I ever get the email. 

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Ha , yeah i bet they lost many customers in the 800 $ range sector with bambu... but prusa didnt care :> 

Posted by: @indysam

 I'm a Prusa fan boy but that shine is wearing off as my Banbu prints and prints and prints. 

I'll probably sell my place in line if I ever get the email. 

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Posted by: @indysam

 I'm a Prusa fan boy but that shine is wearing off as my Banbu prints and prints and prints. 

I'll probably sell my place in line if I ever get the email. 

I suspect that is gonna be difficult to do.  Bambu is good but it is no Prusa.  I own three, but they are not near as user upgradable.  

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

I have heard rumors but nothing more.  As many have said, it seems like the beta testers are tight lipped.  

Posted by: @chrono

Well, we only know from Minute 5:05, that multi tool will ship 2 months after beta tests. While josef stated, that beta testers will have them soon(tm) at the time we have no idea if this actually happened. (or do we?).

Edit: took away the video link, the embedded thing is just too big and does not use the timestamp

Posted by: @cwbullet

 [...]

I took the announcement differently.  The first single heads should ship in March - we have 19 days.  The multi heads would ship 2 months later.  That is not April.  I am not sure where that came from.  

 

RE:

I'm still unsure why people call it multitool when it's clearly just multiextruder so far... And so far not even that. 

I'm a Prusa fan too but as said above, about to ask the refund for deposit soon I think.... 

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Multi tool is a standard name used by the industry to include E3D.  

Posted by: @bolsoncerrado

I'm still unsure why people call it multitool when it's clearly just multiextruder so far... And so far not even that. 

 

I'm a Prusa fan too but as said above, about to ask the refund for deposit soon I think.... 

RE:

Posted by: @stuartb

Hi Chuck, I did say 'I think'.

You are quite right the post on 25 January states 'soon' to ship out multi head test machines so the multi heads should ship one month later, in April (maybe?) and not 2 months after that.

My Transcript: sorry for any mistakes...

Hello everyone.

As you can see, I have two XLs here.

One is a single tool version, the other one has all five tool heads.

I would like to give you an update both about the shipping of the XL and also about the latest developments and changes we've made in the past (two/few) weeks.

So, in December we  sent err, single tool beta units to our external testers and we also continued our internal testing.

…..

Err we are making small optimisations to dampen the vibrations, which err in turn will make the printer much quieter.

…’’

 

extending over the edge of the headed acted as a heatsink and the heated had a hard time compensating for the heat dissipation.

 

Err so we experimented with different shapes, and err, it still needs to be easily removable, and we ended up with a sheet that looks like this.

…

 

 

 

What’s with all those “err”’s?

what does it mean?

also, i do not understand this line: … extending over the edge of the headed acted as a heatsink and the heated had a hard time compensating for the heat dissipation. …

Also, what does BOHV mean?

what I find strange is the fact that shipping originally would have started a year ago, … but due to lack of parts everything has been delayed -this part I understand- … but then why suddenly they need to test the multi-head! 
if they planed tho ship earlier, the multihead which is a very important part of the XL should have been ready too.

and if they needed some months extra to test this part, why dodn’t they test this earlier why do they have to test this only once the single-heads are shipping.

i must be missing something very obvious, I guess.

anyhow, shipping was announced for the beginning of march … we are halfway into march … has anyone heared about shipped XL’s yet?

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

I have 3 XL machines on pre order since Nov 18 , 2021 . I’m guessing by end of June we will probably start see a few here or there out in the wild . Thankfully I’m not in no immediate need so I have patience. Just really hoping they will be rock solid and bug free with the amount of delays there has been . 

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Jo Prusa has stated before that they do not issue review units, so the lack of YouTube reviews means nothing.  Their rational is why delay getting units into the hands of paying customers to send out production units for review.  

If I recall correctly that is exactly how the launch of the Prusa Mini was handled.

I fully expect that the emails will just start arriving to convert the reservations into orders.

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

the problem is you cant test on your own. even if you give it to 20ppl you cant reach the "usage" of 1000 ppl.
even after 10years of the mk3 there are still bugs in the firmware.

and what we are talking about? its a marlin 3D Printer. They should have enough skills and experience to handle "problems".

give it to the crowd and prepared to react quick to upcoming issues.

give this machine to a team of core XY experienced voron users. a team that works full time for prusa to test the machine and report issues.
dont tell me it needs a year to make a printer user ready.

ive build a voron 2.4 from scratch with not a single knowledge about vorons or klipper.

after 3 months it was a rock solid machine just doing what i want. and iam far away of a 3D Print freak that spends his daily job working on 3D Printers.

so there are only 2 options:

1. they lie for whatever reasons
2. they are dumb af to handle their own printer.

both sounds: it cant be....but theres no reason to show NOTHING.

anyone who brings new stuff to the market has at least a running machine and would show the chocolate side of their product.
where are the "ready to ship" machines that Prusa posted on twitter?

anyone noticed over the years it took always 3-4 weeks to get your mk3? no matter as a kit or assembled?

its the first time i see that the mk3 is "in stock" and ready to ship. Josef himself stated they sell 900 printers a year.

well i guess in the last 6 months of the bambu raid they sold not that much anymore and there are still ppl not knowing bambus.
whatever they pretend, i guess they are in serious problems when you cant serve the farm companies anymore with your slow af but reliable printers.

no sry no excuse. you reap what you sow

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Posted by: @zemso

the problem is you cant test on your own. even if you give it to 20ppl you cant reach the "usage" of 1000 ppl.
even after 10years of the mk3 there are still bugs in the firmware.

What bugs?  I have been printing for four years and have not experienced a single bug.  

RE:

simply check the changelog on the latest firmware.

https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/releases

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Posted by: @zemso

simply check the changelog on the latest firmware.

If you expect software to be bug-free, you have ridiculous expectations.  Everyone makes mistakes.  They need to be corrected.  

Are you mistake-free?  

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

iam not at all. thats what i wanted to tell you.
theres no reason to pretend "we are working everything out that you get a hassle free working machine"

its funny that you say exactly how it is and we both know that PRUSA knows that too.

they are simply not honest. if they would tell the truth they wouldnt enjoy the shitstorm from mad users.

as you said. your mk3 runs 4 years ....and also 4 years they stuck on their old hardware. you didnt get WLAN for your mk3 until today.
you have to make your nyloc mod, build an ikea enclosure and use repetier or octoprint to have wlan options (do i have to tell what a raspberry now costs?)

RE: Unofficial Prusa XL Waiting Thread

Actually, Jo Prusa stated position in production is tied to where you are in the pre-order Queue.  If you want to wait on a 5 head unit, once it’s ready to ship you will be put into production based on the pre-order position.

Didn’t you know that?

Posted by: @zemso

if you want the 5 head your at the end of the list