Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!  

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

Posted by: @skreelink

A note about IPA, make sure to use 90% or higher, and try to aim for a 'decent' brand, none of the ones that are popping up to cash in on the current covid rush that might have some form of undesirable fillers that actually leave a residue. I've heard pharmacy store brands are decent though (such as Walgreens or CVS if you're in the US).  I've read it's mostly ones sold as "rubbing alcohol" instead of just saying Isopropyl alcohol tend to have some form of oil in them (maybe for the skin since marketed as an antiseptic for minor cuts?) An example taken from Wikipedia's article for rubbing alcohol is in Ireland and the UK "surgical spirit" which the British Pharmacopoeia defines as 95% methylated spirit, 2.5% castor oil, 2% diethyl phthalate, and 0.5% methyl salicylate. Check the "inactive ingredients" on the label of your IPA bottle. A thin layer of castor oil that doesn't evaporate I'm sure is just as bad as finger oils for adhesion, just a swipe of the fingers is enough to doom a print.

I'm wondering if castor oil, or something similar, might be responsible for users reporting difficulty getting prints, particularly PLA, to stick properly.  If users aren't paying attention to what other than alcohol is in the mix, it could be making things worse.

Around here (Omaha, US) since the Covid hit the fan, isopropyl products have been spotty in supply.  Lately (December) it seems like 70% IPA and what's labeled as 'Rubbing Alcohol Compound' are usually available, but 91% is not.  Next time I'm in a Walgreens/CVS I'll check to see, out of curiosity, what's in those 'compound' bottles other than alcohol and water.

99% 'technical grade' IPA and 'Denatured alcohol' are more commonly available around here, and I normally use the former for cleaning the plate, but I picked up a can of the latter when IPA became scarce last spring.  It lists 'may contain methanol and/or methyl isobutyl keytone' as adulterants.  It seems to cut the Kores glue stick residue a bit better than IPA.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

The following solved my problem.

I'd been using my smooth sheet for about a year with no problems then it got to the point PLA would not stick and then PETG stopped. I would clean it with IPA and washing it with dawn helped but did not last long.   Unrelated I had ordered the textured sheet and when it came in I could not get anything to work. Nothing stuck. Dawn would help for maybe one print but event that was iffy? 

Then I had a light bulb moment and tried something. I had been using IPA towelettes, opening one, wiping everything down and then printing. I got to thinking that the amount of alcohol in the wipe might not be enough to remove the residue and was actually just smearing it around, making things worse.  So I started powering the alcohol in the middle and letting it run outward. Flooding it in effect. Not enough to run off the sides but once it started heading to a side I would use a paper towel and pull it around the outer sections. Then effectively spreading it around like you might a poly or something. 

Well my next print worked great. And the one after that without recleaning, and another. I only clean about every 10 prints or so. The only other change I made is I am very conscious about not removing the print from the textured one until the sheet has cooled down below 40C.  This restored my life to the smooth sheet and the textured sheet. 

I think different people have different idea's of what clean it with IPA means. Thus some never have problems and  some like me can't get anything to stick. 

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

Try this method from Maker's Muse

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

I'm brand new to 3D printing and was struggling to get Atomic Filament PETG to stick to the powder coated sheet. Thanks to this thread, the following steps now work well for me:

1. Clean the sheet with dish soap and warm water
2. Wipe down the sheet with 91% IPA before each use
3. Calibrate the Z-axis using https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2177790, using a starting point of -0.3mm as compared with the smooth sheet
4. Set the first layer bed temp to 90C and subsequent layers to 95C

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

I should add that I also disabled the fan, since I read that PETG doesn't benefit from it.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

@gglockner

I've just started using Mr Clean Magic Eraser Sheets for thorough cleaning of the smooth PEI sheets.  Seems to clean better than soap and water, even when using a scrubby pad.  The Magic Eraser Sheets don't scratch or leave any marks on the plate.  I haven't tried them on textured sheets, but would think they would be work there too.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

@gglockner

That is odd.  Atomic stick too much to my powder coated sheet.  

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

As I learn more, I updated my filament settings for Atomic Filament PETG; here are the differences from generic PETG:

1. Nozzle: First layer @ 260C, other layers @ 240C
2. Bed: First layer @ 95C, other layers @ 80C
3. Cooling: disable both Keep fan always on and Enable auto cooling

I still wipe down the sheet with 91% IPA before every print. No more problems with detaching on the first layer.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

Hello all,

after a very frustrating learning process I have now found the solution and it really blows my mind.

In short: scrub the textured sheet with the rough side of a normal yellow/green dish sponge. One like @joantabb has already shown and described on page 2. You will immediately notice when you run your hand over the surface under running water how the properties of the surface change from slippery to grippy. The difference is simply incredible.

Scrub the textured sheet as if you were washing a dirty plate, with soap, warm water, the rough side of the sponge and definitely some pressure. Circular movements. One pass should be enough. Then compare the two sides of the sheets, the treated and the untreated under running water and you will immediately notice how gigantic the difference is. I am still completely stoked about it.

The rough side of the rinsing sponge is nothing more than abrasive fleece. You scratch a polish pattern in stainless steel with it without further ado. Therefore, you will also roughen the surface of the Textured sheet cleanly. Without abrading too much and without causing bare spots. After the treatment, you can hardly notice a difference visually, perhaps the surface has become slightly duller.

I have not been able to print a single part where the corners did not lift. I had a lot of waste due to extreme warping. I printed with a windscreen and border, was about to build myself a case.... but Prusa has afaik 1100 printers running and (I think) not one enclosed.
After the sponge treatment, I just printed 3mm diameter parts standing upright. I can finally rely on the adhesion. I am so happy about this :-).

By the way: before each print i clean the sheet with 99,9% IPA from a spray bottle, as recommended by prusa. I wash the alcohol off with a microfiber cloth. Works very well. Also on the smooth sheet.

Happy printing everybody. If you want, tell me if it worked for you!

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

Look at this:

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

@herrgoldner

Yup the scotch pad fixed it for me as well a while back.  Now just clean with 91% ipa and ready for next print

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

@daryl-2

That works if you rough it up.  

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

Here’s my experience. I have been using a PEI sheet for PLA successfully for a while. Then I started to use PETg on the PEI: it stuck like glue to it. Z was set to -0.6

I changed to the textured sheet - at the same Z -0.6 - and the PETg wouldn’t stick. As I lowered Z the filament got jammed around the nozzle. I had washed the sheet in soapy water, isopropyl alcohol and bleach - it passed the water break test. Still PETg didn’t stick.

I measured the PEI sheet and the textured sheet. The textured sheet is about 0.5mm thinner than the PEI. I dropped Z to -1.0. It now works perfectly with PETg.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

@jack-chidley

• There is a big difference between the two.  Also the variations in height due to the textured surface comes into play.  For me the z-height setting difference between the two is .365 - similar to yours.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

Thank you all. I am glad I found this thread, I thought I was going crazy. "That looks way too close." Turns out, as you all knew, mine is spot on 0.3mm difference, and now works perfectly. 1.235 to 1.535.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

I ordered a textured sheet with the intention to just use it with PETG, but so far no print worked really well with it.

The filament is PETG from dasFilament and I printed many spools for large functional prints successfully on the smooth sheet. However on the textured sheet small parts will suddenly pop off and large parts tend to warp. The first layer looks good.

Temperatures are 230/240 and 80/75. I already rubbed it with hot water and soap and used a lot of isopropanol.

Any hint what else to try?

I will try setting the temperature to 240/240 and 85/85 and maybe check if I can use it at least for reliable PLA prints.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

LOL, from reading this board, I'm beginning to think that I am the only one in this whole universe who does not have problems getting prints to stick. 🙂

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

Changing the temperature to 240/240 85/85 and using a brim (elephant-foot compensation set to 0) definitely improved the print.

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

Thank you all for this thread!

I was close to giving up on my textured plate and many many failed 1st layers with PETG. No matter how much I tried to clean it with 99% IPA, it just refused to stick reliably. Tried all kinds of settings and calibrations to no avail.

After a good cleaning with warm water and dishsoap, just the soft side of the sponge, and drying it down with paper towels, then another round of 99% IPA, I've finally got a perfect first layer on the first try!

Could immediately feel a big difference in the friction on the plate just running my (gloved) finger over the surface...

(I've got an MK3S+, My plate is marked TL-21. Must be some residue on them from the manufacturing...)

RE: Nothing sticks to textured sheet, not even PETG!

@olofh

Great news, the textured surface really makes prints look good.  I agree, there seems to be something on the surface from the factory.  Dawn detergent and a non-abrasive (blue) scotch-brite pad fixed mine up.  For the last 6+ months I occasionally clean it with 91% IPA but mainly just do a quick wipe with original Windex.