RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
Saw a video the other day from someone that was testing out a dry storage system. (From what I saw, it was stupid). They put spools into this system and the humidity did go down. Physics states that moisture will go towards the driest point which should be the desiccant. How well that works is up to discussion and accurate testing.
I personally have not experienced drying while stored in a dry atmosphere. I also have not weighed spools to see if there is any change.
In the video I watched, the then changed to a forced air system to blow the moist air over the desiccant. Circulated air should have a larger drying effect.
All of this is something to be tested.
I have experienced the "not dry" from supplier and "not dry" after some time in a storage box that was under 12% for PETG and ASA. Since this experience, I will dry any new spool before it goes into use.
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
I consider desicant more like an indication of moisture than a method of drying the filament. I keep a 3D printed round box with silica gel into the inner core of the spools. PLA spools in the original Prusa resealable bags and other filaments more sensitive to moisture in sealed vacuum containers. When the silica gel balls start to change from amber to pale green, I know it's time to dry that spool of filament.
Yes, I know that activated alumina is far more efficient than silica gel absorbing water but I can't bother regenerating the alumina if I have to put it in a convection oven at 200C for several hours. It seems to me a waste of time and energy, because you can regenerate silica gel leaving it 2 minutes in a microwave oven at 600W setting. I've been doing this for years and I see no degradation of the silica gel after many regenerating cycles.
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
With regard to how filaments are packaged by the vendor, here is an interesting example.
Thank you. I have learned a lot from this thread but that - and your other comments - is really helpful. I need to investigate a filament that I have stopped using. I assumed it would be perfectly dry on arrival, but perhaps it was not. Will see if lengthy drying might make a difference. It's PP.
RE:
Thank you for the suggestion. I bought a convection oven to dry it, and that works well. Although desiccant typically will not dry filament, it sure does limit hydration. I would nto call it worthless.
For some filaments like PAs it only reduces the amount of drying time needed. Popping it in a filament dryer before a print (and drying while printing) is still required.
Example from a dry box I only need to dry PA for 4-6 hrs. If left out in the open then 12-14hrs and in this case (having left the spool out) I also need to make sure I rotate the spool occasionally. So a dry box makes it less than a PITA but doesn't mitigate the need for a drying (for some materials).
I keep PCTG and PETG in dry boxes and in this case it's good enough that I don't have to dry them before a print.
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
I use cloth bags that we sew to hold the silica gel. Most are muslin. I dry at 210F for 2 hours on convect with a wood block in the oven door to hold it slightly open AND press on the safety switch so the oven still heats and the convection fan runs. The spools of dry filament are kept in three "pet food storage bins" . Each bin holds 16-20 spools along with a bag or 2 of silica gel (500g or so total). One of the bins has a ecowitt temp and humidity sensor (one each would be better) . I use these for fridges, freezer, meat curing / charcuterie fridge etc . Freshly dried the humidity falls to 15-16% and I refresh / reheat at 22% or so. I use a Creality SPace PI X4 to dry filament (including new sealed spools) . It lives next to the printer and will feed the left hand side when my INDX arrives. The right side will get 4 of the Prusa USS holders at that time. Currently I use a cereal box style dry box (yodelhaus) for the filament that is printing. I use this rather than the Space Pi due to space constraints. Huge improvement in print quality with dry filament (PLA, PETG, TPU, ASA, PCCF so far). Bins fit under the corner computer desk which holds the printer, PC and other stuff.
I started the silica gel drying process about 15-20 years ago for my Underwater Photography (housing fogs up in cold water otherwise) and have used it for 3D printing for 6-8 years, first with my DBot corexy (and even printing PA and IGUS on it). Keeping the filament dry makes a huge difference, especially now that we are approaching summer and Wisconsin is often VERY humid in the summer. I have not had good luck trying to dry filament with silica gel but it seems to work well for keeping it dry once dried in the Space Pi or oven.
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
This makes me very interested. As I am watching more about the drying myths or truths... on youtube there was a manager of a large print factory who said they are not drying their filaments at all. Well.. I am going to try it out.
Just a guy with a Core One L on a 3D Journey
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
What I saw on youtube, a bigger printfactory manager, is that it is not the drying, but the heating of the material that makes it work better, because of the heat the plastics will get more flexible again. It is a sort of anti aging. Seems logical to me.
I used to believe that if you left a spool in a dry, desiccant environment for months, you didn't have too worry about it. I will admit I was 100% wrong. New spool of ASA, stored in a 10% dry storage box for a few months. Tried to print and saw steam coming from the nozzle. Since I dried the filament, now it works as expected.
I learned what CNC Kitchen showed. Desiccant doesn't dry filament. You do need a dryer.
My first experience with the need of a dryer was with TPU. Even during the print, it picked up enough moisture to cause issues at the end of the print. And I live is what many say is a dry climate.
From this experience, I will dry tall filaments before going into storage. Solid walled spools get extra drying time.
Just a guy with a Core One L on a 3D Journey
RE:
Cannot edit my response anymore to add the link, but this is the video:
Here about TPU
About brittle PLA
What I saw on youtube, a bigger printfactory manager, is that it is not the drying, but the heating of the material that makes it work better, because of the heat the plastics will get more flexible again. It is a sort of anti aging. Seems logical to me.
I used to believe that if you left a spool in a dry, desiccant environment for months, you didn't have too worry about it. I will admit I was 100% wrong. New spool of ASA, stored in a 10% dry storage box for a few months. Tried to print and saw steam coming from the nozzle. Since I dried the filament, now it works as expected.
I learned what CNC Kitchen showed. Desiccant doesn't dry filament. You do need a dryer.
My first experience with the need of a dryer was with TPU. Even during the print, it picked up enough moisture to cause issues at the end of the print. And I live is what many say is a dry climate.
From this experience, I will dry tall filaments before going into storage. Solid walled spools get extra drying time.
Just a guy with a Core One L on a 3D Journey
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
That only works with certain filaments. You will have limited success with Nylon.
This makes me very interested. As I am watching more about the drying myths or truths... on youtube there was a manager of a large print factory who said they are not drying their filaments at all. Well.. I am going to try it out.
--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
He admittedly only prints PLA most of the time. PLA is a poor choice in the South in the summer. Tends to melt in cars.
Cannot edit my response anymore to add the link, but this is the video:
Here about TPU
About brittle PLA
What I saw on youtube, a bigger printfactory manager, is that it is not the drying, but the heating of the material that makes it work better, because of the heat the plastics will get more flexible again. It is a sort of anti aging. Seems logical to me.
I used to believe that if you left a spool in a dry, desiccant environment for months, you didn't have too worry about it. I will admit I was 100% wrong. New spool of ASA, stored in a 10% dry storage box for a few months. Tried to print and saw steam coming from the nozzle. Since I dried the filament, now it works as expected.
I learned what CNC Kitchen showed. Desiccant doesn't dry filament. You do need a dryer.
My first experience with the need of a dryer was with TPU. Even during the print, it picked up enough moisture to cause issues at the end of the print. And I live is what many say is a dry climate.
From this experience, I will dry tall filaments before going into storage. Solid walled spools get extra drying time.
--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE:
I know that PLA is indeed a different item, it is also not so prawn to humid. But they are talking about all sorts of filaments and I have maybe missed it, but I think they print other filaments too. Even TPU is spoken about.
He admittedly only prints PLA most of the time. PLA is a poor choice in the South in the summer. Tends to melt in cars.
Just a guy with a Core One L on a 3D Journey
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
He is talking here, he does a load more materials then just PLA.
Government Contracts and all special filaments.
Just a guy with a Core One L on a 3D Journey
RE:
I know that PLA is indeed a different item, it is also not so prawn to humid. But they are talking about all sorts of filaments and I have maybe missed it, but I think they print other filaments too. Even TPU is spoken about.
PA filaments are impossible to print without drying. I would argue the same for TPU. CF infused filaments are also hygroscopic and most require drying before a print. You can mostly print PETG without drying if you are willing to put up with some stringing. PLA can more or less be left out in the open. None of this is true if you live in a tropical environment or next to the ocean. My friend who lives in Arizona keeps all of his filament out in the open since its a natural dry box. So your environment is a factor here.
It is true that over drying PA and PLA can make it brittle. Also for PLA, storing it for too long can also make it brittle. That is, it has a shelf life.
The various YouTube videos can be informative but not always correct. There are a few I trust implicitly: CNC Kitchen and My Tech Fun are the only 2 I trust 100%
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
Watched both videos and I do wonder if Push Plastics is using filament that they have stored in their dry room. I did like the comments about ABS vs ASA.
I do question the comment in the one video about the water vapour coming out the top of the print head where the filament enters. That isn't where it is being heated. I have witnessed what I have seen in videos about steam and bubbling at the nozzle from filament. One reason I got something to dry my filament. Sure it is a food dehydrator but it works for my filament. If I get into Nylon for something, then I may have to run the dehydrator much longer or get a different dryer.
From one video I watched, I now weigh my filament and desiccant before drying. Weight after to see how much moisture has been removed.
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
If I get into Nylon for something, then I may have to run the dehydrator much longer or get a different dryer..
For nylons you need a 85°+ dryer and ideally be able to print while drying. The only nylon I still use is PPA and PPA-CF from Siraya Tech.
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
Apart from a PrintDry ProII, I own two Sunlu driers, a S2 and a E2, which is expensive and noisy, but works great. In fact, since I purchased it, my PrintDry ProII hasn't been used anymore.
It's possible to dry and print at the same time with the E2, but this guy is quite big and heavy, so I don't like installing on top of my printers. Relocating it further away implies using a very long Bowden tube with additional friction in the filament path.
What I do is to dry previously the spools with the big boy ( E2 ) and print with the little kid ( S2 ) that keeps the filament at 55-60C. This temperature is too low to dry PA/PC/TPU but high enough to prevent that the filament absorbs additional moisture.
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
Print Drys are big and expensive. They do work.
--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
Apart from a PrintDry ProII, I own two Sunlu driers, a S2 and a E2, which is expensive and noisy, but works great. In fact, since I purchased it, my PrintDry ProII hasn't been used anymore.
It's possible to dry and print at the same time with the E2, but this guy is quite big and heavy, so I don't like installing on top of my printers. Relocating it further away implies using a very long Bowden tube with additional friction in the filament path.
What I do is to dry previously the spools with the big boy ( E2 ) and print with the little kid ( S2 ) that keeps the filament at 55-60C. This temperature is too low to dry PA/PC/TPU but high enough to prevent that the filament absorbs additional moisture.
I was transferring from my Creality Space Pi 4 after drying to the Space Pi (single spool) which can reach 75 and would print from that.
RE: Are we kidding ourselves about desiccant?
SpacePi X4 as dryer and also feeder.
Under it is a layer of XPS. It is strong so my C1L is not bending on the roof, it isolates very well so the heat up time for ASA is much shorter.
Bowden is Capricorn XS. Have not much drag with it.
Very happy with the SpacePi X4
Just a guy with a Core One L on a 3D Journey