Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy  

RE:

I really do wish people would read the detail of what is in the kits thoroughly before letting their gums flap. Sadly, this is the norm with the age we live in now. Jump online and scream your outrage. Don't read product descriptons or manuals - jump online and ask question because your too lazy to do the basic research yourself.  🙄 

The information on what is and is not included and what parts are reused is very clear on each kit.

Jo himself states that the upgrade path is not of any real financial benefit to the user, but continues Prusa's commitment to providing an upgrade path. It is more for people that don't have room for more printers, but really want the benefits of the new tech.

Statements without data are speculation, not fact; so stop it with the whinging about not getting the new frame.

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

Jo himself states that the upgrade path is not of any real financial benefit to the user,

The upgrade paths make sense as soon as your Einsy board is damaged.

However, i would not upgrade a perfectly running MK3S / +

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

I think it makes sense for older Mk3S that needs some TLC, but agree in general.  For one that works perfectly or one you want to main a Bondtec or Mosquito, the 3.5 makes more sense.  

Posted by: @stefan-3

Jo himself states that the upgrade path is not of any real financial benefit to the user,

The upgrade paths make sense as soon as your Einsy board is damaged.

However, i would not upgrade a perfectly running MK3S / +

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

Stiffness or matrix of stiffness (cause it is different in different directions) is not related to load. It is divided from geometry and material properties.

Higher stiffness is related to higher first self frequency of the construction. For fast precise movement systems it is important to have higher first self frequency.

Low self frequency may resonant (very unpleasant situation) or input additional errors and shifts. Of course all of it may be calculated and simulated with proper tools.

YES

You learn this if you study physics or mechanical design or FEM analysis.

They went to injection moulding to reduce the price of production

That is true, too. The older frame was cut out of thick aluminium sheet metal and the inner rectangle was lost, at least it was not used in a printer.

If you produce a part in a mold, you have completely new possibilities and you want to use them.
Adding ribs (=hexagonal pattern) is done to increase stiffness and reduce deformation during cooling of the part. 

Off course it looks cool, too.

RE:

Soon after they release the upgrades, we will know.  I will likely comment on the differences between the Mk4, Mk3.5, and Mk4 upgrades.  I have 4 Mk3s to upgrade.  Two which have Bondtecs and Mosquito and Revo.  I will probably keep those at 3.5.  Then again, I am going to have to see what Bondtech does with their firmware.  

Posted by: @stefan-3

Stiffness or matrix of stiffness (cause it is different in different directions) is not related to load. It is divided from geometry and material properties.

Higher stiffness is related to higher first self frequency of the construction. For fast precise movement systems it is important to have higher first self frequency.

Low self frequency may resonant (very unpleasant situation) or input additional errors and shifts. Of course all of it may be calculated and simulated with proper tools.

YES

You learn this if you study physics or mechanical design or FEM analysis.

They went to injection moulding to reduce the price of production

That is true, too. The older frame was cut out of thick aluminium sheet metal and the inner rectangle was lost, at least it was not used in a printer.

If you produce a part in a mold, you have completely new possibilities and you want to use them.
Adding ribs (=hexagonal pattern) is done to increase stiffness and reduce deformation during cooling of the part. 

Off course it looks cool, too.

RE:

The upgrades are not being forced on people. People can decide whether it makes financial sense to them or not. Maybe you have an MK3S/S+ with a failed EINSY or extruder and it needs a refresh.

At least the option is there - something other manufacturers do not offer. Carrying on about profiteering or gouging is non-sensical. It the argument of someone that doesn't understand the realities of development, warehousing and stock inventories.

It's really no better than the people whining about the XL delays or the claims that the MK4 was rushed to market without warning to compete with the BL X1C and P1P.

Constructive criticism is fine if it is backed by verifiable facts, not conjecture or something they read in some other group.

Otherwise, if people have got nothing positive or helpful to contribute, maybe they should consider moving on.

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

From someone who like sto buy something and it work, i have to agree here to a point... the MK3 was back before 2019, this was like 4+ years ago... since then Prusa seem to have purchased a USA company (distributor?), purchased another 3D printing company, purchased board manufacturing equiepment, btourhg online a whole filament manufacture system... this is ALOT of money, so where did this money come from?  considering PRE buying all those companies certain upgrades were free, and yet they still made enough money to buy all the above.  I also understand they have some stacking single head printers and some robot arm that can pull the complete print to a window (so a 3D printer version of an IKEA warehouse system)... soooo where did all the money come from?  It appears to be goal posts were changed a little, buy still using words like "COMPLETE upgrade" when really it isnt.... for me this highlights a shift in where the money is going and moves from a "we are like you" to a "we make a product we want you to like", the statements sound very similar but have very different back end meanings.

For me this boils down to pay for something, get something and i have always noticed when the money starts to increate in profit, promises start to fail as they are made with a marketing slant to them.

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

Sorry, typos above, cant edit them now...

RE:

I agree with Flex.  I too posted my feedback as well in this thread, and while it also was not positive, no one in the community degraded to the level you did during this conversation.  I would have expected the number of stars behind your name to indicate some type of tenure on these forums - now all I see is stars that represent how much time you may waste trying to cut down others.  Ad hominem attacks are not appropriate nor constructive.

There are other members as well that also do not like the wording that Prusa uses when it comes to the upgrade kits.  It's a very valid point and it's not "whinging" to discuss it.

There is also nothing wrong with speculation.  The lack of information is why people start a thread - to discuss it.  Some of us have more details then others, and in some circumstances even the product team will reply.

Please stop attacking people because they don't conform to your reality and/or opinion.

Posted by: @ipind3d

The upgrades are not being forced on people. People can decide whether it makes financial sense to them or not. Maybe you have an MK3S/S+ with a failed EINSY or extruder and it needs a refresh.

 

At least the option is there - something other manufacturers do not offer. Carrying on about profiteering or gouging is non-sensical. It the argument of someone that doesn't understand the realities of development, warehousing and stock inventories.

 

It's really no better than the people whining about the XL delays or the claims that the MK4 was rushed to market without warning to compete with the BL X1C and P1P.

 

Constructive criticism is fine if it is backed by verifiable facts, not conjecture or something they read in some other group.

 

Otherwise, if people have got nothing positive or helpful to contribute, maybe they should consider moving on.

RE:

Calm down people. What would a complete upgrade mean for you? I guess what you keep from the MK3 to upgrade would be some pulleys, linear bearings, belts, rods, the PSU and some bolt and nuts.  So a complete upgrade would be everything else apart from those items. Interesting and educating as this is, just order a complete MK4 kit and leave your MK3 intact. 👍 

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

You can buy a complete upgrade for $799 plus shipping.  

If it is that important to you, the link is:

https://www.prusa3d.com/product/original-prusa-mk4-3d-printer-kit/

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

 LOL, that is the best reply ever. Love it. 

Posted by: @cwbullet

You can buy a complete upgrade for $799 plus shipping.  

If it is that important to you, the link is:

https://www.prusa3d.com/product/original-prusa-mk4-3d-printer-kit/

 

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

I guess I haven't been paying attention to pricing, since I really am not planning to go with the MK4.

IIRC, that price is cheaper than what the unit I have (MK3S) was going for, kit version, back in 2019.  (Or am I on drugs here?)  😉

Posted by: @cwbullet

You can buy a complete upgrade for $799 plus shipping.  

If it is that important to you, the link is:

https://www.prusa3d.com/product/original-prusa-mk4-3d-printer-kit/

 

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

I started this post way back when they showed the upgrade path. After reading some very good replies, I sold my Mk3s+ and ordered the kit. Online shipping showing for the date and time I bought it Mid-June, I can't wait. Probably the best part for me is building the kit LOL I would work for Prusa just building kits. 

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

I agreed, but we would be wrong - $749

Posted by: @jsw

I guess I haven't been paying attention to pricing, since I really am not planning to go with the MK4.

IIRC, that price is cheaper than what the unit I have (MK3S) was going for, kit version, back in 2019.  (Or am I on drugs here?)  😉

Posted by: @cwbullet

You can buy a complete upgrade for $799 plus shipping.  

If it is that important to you, the link is:

https://www.prusa3d.com/product/original-prusa-mk4-3d-printer-kit/

 

 

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

Well, it looks like the MK3S was a bit cheaper, so I guess I was on drugs.  I thought it was $800-ish or so.

I do remember the warning to order the textured build plate separately, since doing it in one order would trigger some customs level.

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

I think thats the full printer(kit), not an upgrade.

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

Posted by: @paul-hodara

I think thats the full printer(kit), not an upgrade.

That’s the joke. 

Posted by: @jsw

Well, it looks like the MK3S was a bit cheaper, so I guess I was on drugs.  I thought it was $800-ish or so.

I do remember the warning to order the textured build plate separately, since doing it in one order would trigger some customs level.

The MK3S+ was $799 for the kit when I started looking at printers in February of this year.

On the other hand, I would say $799 is $800-ish. 😉  Or more on point, even $749 would have been over $800 when you consider shipping. So remembering a $749 printer you paid over $800 for including shipping as $800-ish is completely reasonable. 

RE:

Yes, and if you want a full 100% upgrade, that is you only option.  

Posted by: @paul-hodara

I think thats the full printer(kit), not an upgrade.

RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy

I was disappointed also that the full upgrade cost so much.  I understand why.  70% of the printer has been changed.  Giving 3 levels of upgrade vs. 1 gives us options.  

The changes in the MK4 are so many that there is little left of the MK3S+ when doing a full upgrade.    Prusa did what customers asked in providing a "full" upgrade, except for the frame.    Adding the frame to the cost may have been prohibitive in the end.   Is it really that critical?    I had ordered the full upgrade, but I looked at it again today and changed my MK3S+ MK4  full upgrade to a complete MK4 kit.  Why?

• I will have 2 printers when done.  Not 1.   Is an MK3s+ worth $220?   I think so.  It is still a very good 3D printer.   I can't find one close to that price on the used market in my area. My son and Grandkids would love to have it. 
• I  reviewed the MK4 build instructions to estimate the work involved in the upgrade.  I still have to go through 95% of the kit build to do an upgrade.
• I wont have to print out the  parts.   The upgrade kit requires you to print your own parts.  

If the MK4 and nextruder do 100% clean breaks on all materials, I may not need the Multi Head XL for  year or two.   

The schedule slips and wait have made me anxious and a little grumpy also.  I have 40+ years in manufacturing and know quality is worth a wait.  Once I have the MK4, that will all go away and hopefully be replaced with a big smile.  Until then my MK3s+ is working just fine for single color prints.