RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
I'm not sure how difficult it is to put the kit together, I'll need further investigation of that. I'm retired, so I have the time. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I've assembled stuff in the past. I'm married so I'm also used to following instructions!
There's a youtuber Aurora Tech who covers 3D printers and she must be about 13-14 and puts them together all the time.
When I did my MK3S+ I was almost wishing I'd bought it assembled but I'm now itching to build another one.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
I have assembled nine total printers. I am not mechanically inclined at all, and I can do it. The instructions are a joy to follow.
I'm embarrassed that I didn't think about this. I just received the $200 voucher and could use it to reduce the cost of the MK4. If i ordered the kit I could have an MK4 for $600. I'm not sure how difficult it is to put the kit together, I'll need further investigation of that. I'm retired, so I have the time. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I've assembled stuff in the past. I'm married so I'm also used to following instructions!
The genius here is that this would allow me to have two printers!
Is there going to be a "sympathy kit" for those of us who finished building their MK3S+ on Monday, only to get hit with the MK4 on Wednesday? 🤣 / 😫
That said, for the pricing involved, I can't see it making much sense to buy the "full" upgrade kit. Having two printers is worth an extra $200, especially when the upgraded one wouldn't be 100% the MK4. The more interesting question will be if any of the partial upgrade kits prove to be good bang for the buck.
Did you buy it in the last 30 days? If so, you'll get a $150 USD voucher by email to cover the difference in price, as the MK3+ kit price dropped by $150 when the MK4 came out. You could use that to buy an MK4 kit for $650 instead of the normal $800.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
OK you are getting not the 100% MK4 with the "full" upgrade. But the differences are very small and will not have any impact on print quality. The remodeled frame is some kind of a design gimmick, but nothing which is more stable than the frame of the MK3.From the announcement of the nextruder I hoped that prusa will sell an upgrade kit. Now it's there and I ordered it.On the commercial side this might be a bad deal. But I do not have place (and jobs) for 2 printers and also don’t want to spend time to sell a well-used MK3.I will sell some of the spare parts (stepper motor) and some accessories I bought for the extruder.
The only thing which bothers me is to place the downpayment and wait for a (unknown) long time for getting the parts.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
OK you are getting not the 100% MK4 with the "full" upgrade. But the differences are very small and will not have any impact on print quality. The remodeled frame is some kind of a design gimmick, but nothing which is more stable than the frame of the MK3.From the announcement of the nextruder I hoped that prusa will sell an upgrade kit. Now it's there and I ordered it.On the commercial side this might be a bad deal. But I do not have place (and jobs) for 2 printers and also don’t want to spend time to sell a well-used MK3.I will sell some of the spare parts (stepper motor) and some accessories I bought for the extruder.
The only thing which bothers me is to place the downpayment and wait for a (unknown) long time for getting the parts.
Agreed, I am in the same boat as you. I cant change the title of Not Happy. LOL .. My post has gone wild. Probably get the frame afterward anyways.
RE:
I'm embarrassed that I didn't think about this. I just received the $200 voucher and could use it to reduce the cost of the MK4. If i ordered the kit I could have an MK4 for $600. I'm not sure how difficult it is to put the kit together, I'll need further investigation of that. I'm retired, so I have the time. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I've assembled stuff in the past. I'm married so I'm also used to following instructions!
The genius here is that this would allow me to have two printers!
Is there going to be a "sympathy kit" for those of us who finished building their MK3S+ on Monday, only to get hit with the MK4 on Wednesday? 🤣 / 😫
That said, for the pricing involved, I can't see it making much sense to buy the "full" upgrade kit. Having two printers is worth an extra $200, especially when the upgraded one wouldn't be 100% the MK4. The more interesting question will be if any of the partial upgrade kits prove to be good bang for the buck.
Did you buy it in the last 30 days? If so, you'll get a $150 USD voucher by email to cover the difference in price, as the MK3+ kit price dropped by $150 when the MK4 came out. You could use that to buy an MK4 kit for $650 instead of the normal $800.
Here, check out the MK3S+ assembly instructions and see for yourself: https://help.prusa3d.com/category/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-kit-assembly_1128
I have only bought a MINI+ kit so far, but the instructions are similar. Detailed steps, with lots of high quality photos with various markup to let you know what goes where. The MINI+ assembly instructions are probably by far the most detailed, easy to use assembly instructions I've seen yet. It is NOT some cheap product made in China or elsewhere at bottom dollar with a semblance of instructions written in another language and fed through Google Translate.
Prusa said the MINI+ would take 6-8 hours. I got the assembly instructions ready, then started a timer when I started unpacking the box. I stopped the timer when I took breaks or stopped for the day. I clocked in at six hours, ten minutes to the point I was turning it on to do initial power-on checks. I was not rushing things.
Prusa says the MK3S+ takes about 8 hours, and I saw one post somewhere with someone saying it took them 7, and one person who said it took 10. I'm guessing the MK4 will be very similar in assembly time.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
Why would they upgrade components that have no impact on print quality, do they affect performance?
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
I'd generally agree, but in my case, I have a box of Mk 3 parts I got from a buddy who managed to lose some parts and break the wires off the hotend. He lost interest and gave me the rest of the kit. So for me, I can save a couple hunnert bucks by getting the upgrade kit. I don't currently plan on upgrading my functioning Mk3S+. Maybe later.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
That makes sense but make sure you have a printer to print the parts they don;t give you in the upgrade.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
I sold mine MK3S+ yesterday. Waiting when MK4 kit will be available.
RE:
Personally I bought the full upgrade, plan on just buying a Bear kit and whatever couple other bits I need to have a second printer.
Yes, IF you can find someone to sell your MKS3 to for a couple hundred bucks, buying the kit is the better deal. But with the MKS3 price drop I imagine you’ll have a lot of people going “well for just a little more I’d have a brand new one”. You know, the same logic people are having for why they think the upgrade kit isn’t a good deal.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
I have a functioning Mk3S that I'll use to print all the parts. I don't plan to upgrade the functioning Mk3S immediately. Maybe later, depending upon how much better the Mk4 is.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
Its really painful to just get the 3+ done in December and read of a version 4 with looks to be a substantial speed difference for the same exact cost. upgrade for 580 us and paid 800 new. If the upgrade kit was much lower most of us would upgrade and benefit prusa as well knowing most of us are on a later more supported generation.
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The MK4 is an upgrade in the i3 family of printers from Prusa. "i3" is the denominator for the classical (now) mid-sized bed slinger from them. If they were to create a brand new printer design, they would not call it i3 anymore (because it would not be an i3) and not MK4 (because it would not be the 4th edition of the i3 family); they would use a different name, and not market it as an upgrade to the MK3 (because it would not physically make sense). Who knows, maybe they will add a scaled down "XL" as a "M" printer to their line-up if and when the XL is out in sufficient numbers and their developers are free to work on new stuff.
"Disappointing"? We get
- Auto bed leveling
- 32 bit board (i.e., future proofing)
- New features on the printing software side (input shaping)
- Slew new features on the non-printing software side including Wifi
- A brand new extruder
- (Optionally) the new motors
- (Optionally) the MMU3 with proper integration into the printer's firmware
As the cherry on the cake Jo has stated that they will be continuing support for the MK3S+ in his interview with Thomas Sanladerer at the very least. It's not like anyone is forcing you. And the MK3S+ is *so* stable and rock solid these days that even were Prusa to discontinue support for it, you could basically run it eternally - all things that could foreseeably fail are sourced easily.
I think the lesson they will learn is that users will be overwhelmed by this upgrade path (even if "only" getting the 3.5 version) and being awed by a company which gives older customers a proper way to keep up with the times (especially the software features), while keeping a rock solid printer from a company with quite some kudos in that regard.
The MK4 is singularly the most disappointing printer I have seen from Prusa. While evolutionary, it doesn't really push the bed slinger design further - the parts I produce at the MK2.5S/MK3 level will match this printer except for possibly the speed.
Save your money - if you have a MK2.5+ you're really not getting much more...
Here's to hoping that this is a lesson for Prusa. They are about to be shadowed by CoreXY printers, they need to fix their upgrade kit strategy, and they need to become market leaders. If you haven't owned a MK2.5+ then this absolutely makes sense to buy, but anyone looking at "upgrading" should consider saving your money.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
The MK4 is an upgrade in the i3 family of printers from Prusa. "i3" is the denominator for the classical (now) mid-sized bed slinger from them. If they were to create a brand new printer design, they would not call it i3 anymore (because it would not be an i3) and not MK4 (because it would not be the 4th edition of the i3 family); they would use a different name, and not market it as an upgrade to the MK3 (because it would not physically make sense). Who knows, maybe they will add a scaled down "XL" as a "M" printer to their line-up if and when the XL is out in sufficient numbers and their developers are free to work on new stuff.
"Disappointing"? We get
- Auto bed leveling
- 32 bit board (i.e., future proofing)
- New features on the printing software side (input shaping)
- Slew new features on the non-printing software side including Wifi
- A brand new extruder
- (Optionally) the new motors
- (Optionally) the MMU3 with proper integration into the printer's firmwareAs the cherry on the cake Jo has stated that they will be continuing support for the MK3S+ in his interview with Thomas Sanladerer at the very least. It's not like anyone is forcing you. And the MK3S+ is *so* stable and rock solid these days that even were Prusa to discontinue support for it, you could basically run it eternally - all things that could foreseeably fail are sourced easily.
I think the lesson they will learn is that users will be overwhelmed by this upgrade path (even if "only" getting the 3.5 version) and being awed by a company which gives older customers a proper way to keep up with the times (especially the software features), while keeping a rock solid printer from a company with quite some kudos in that regard.
The MK4 is singularly the most disappointing printer I have seen from Prusa. While evolutionary, it doesn't really push the bed slinger design further - the parts I produce at the MK2.5S/MK3 level will match this printer except for possibly the speed.
Save your money - if you have a MK2.5+ you're really not getting much more...
Here's to hoping that this is a lesson for Prusa. They are about to be shadowed by CoreXY printers, they need to fix their upgrade kit strategy, and they need to become market leaders. If you haven't owned a MK2.5+ then this absolutely makes sense to buy, but anyone looking at "upgrading" should consider saving your money.
I appreciate your opinion. My intent was to communicate my perception as well as others that are vocalizing the same thing. I get that there will be ppl on both sides and my intent is to share feedback for a better printer in the future.
To clarify though on your points:
- Auto bed leveling - we have had the predecessors to this for some time now. I have to set my z-axis once a year for my use case. All competitors also now do this and do it well (lasers).
- 32 bit board - this is nice, but again not a differentiator. I don't know of any competitors that use old RAMBO's anymore...
- New features on the printing software side (input shaping) - ahh yes - a nice Klipper feature. Guess what - you can't modify the resonance frequency. So it you want to tune it or change something that affects resonance good luck.
- Slew new features on the non-printing software side including Wifi - one word = Octoprint. I don't want a beta product that sends my prints anywhere but directly to my printer.
- A brand new extruder - one with removable nozzles which no one else manufactures
- (Optionally) the new motors - do you mean with the upgrade? So now we have 2 different retail non-upgraded motor configs for the MK4?!
- (Optionally) the MMU3 with proper integration into the printer's firmware - the MMU has always been a clunky and wasteful design...while it can produce some cool results, it is extraordinarily wasteful.
When I bought my MK2s the advantages of the technology were so much more well defined compared to the competition. This has definitely changed and the features listed as new aren't the differentiators that put the MK4 into a bracket of it's own - they just bring it to the standard that others already have...
Trust me, I know there are plenty here that look at me and smell blood. I'm posting in a companies forum where I know there are people that say things like "it's not the printer it's you" when it comes to resolving issues (like Rambo boards burning or the MK2.5s stupid fan ramp that needed to be added). But I refuse to not convey what others are saying.
As always, I appreciate your opinion - I hope you and others don't take it personally.
Mk4 Assembly Instructions
I have the MK4 hopefully on the way. Meanwhile I'm looking to start going over the Assembly Instructions. Where/how do I find it?
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
Some clarification I hope on above post:
- - Auto bed leveling - we have had the predecessors to this for some time now. I have to set my z-axis once a year for my use case. All competitors also now do this and do it well (lasers).
I consider this for auto z-leveling... I do a full calibration each time I do a firmware update. Changing styles of plates I get better performance if I tune the print setup to each plate / type of material. With the new version; the print head touches the plate and provides I hope a dead on assessment for this step. Calibration is performed near the area to be printed so the start of the print should be a bit faster. Now if I kept the same plate; and used the same filament I would say not a big deal...but I do swap out both of those often.
- - 32 bit board - this is nice, but again not a differentiator. I don't know of any competitors that use old RAMBO's anymore...
A bit more true than anything; but with more advanced board you can do things faster - so it could be looked as a catch up. With the more advanced board true functions like Klipper can be implemented with a sensor...I think Prusa has re-written all of the internal code used in the RAMBO. And yes; folks still use that old board I am just happy to see the upgrade here.
- - New features on the printing software side (input shaping) - ahh yes - a nice Klipper feature. Guess what - you can't modify the resonance frequency. So it you want to tune it or change something that affects resonance good luck.
No surprised here; during the live show that was covered that full Klipper functions was not implanted; however, the pre-set tune works well with additional capabilities down the road. This is not be a big deal assuming you are running a near stock Mark IV. For non-standard configs this would be an issue.
- Slew new features on the non-printing software side including Wifi - one word = Octoprint. I don't want a beta product that sends my prints anywhere but directly to my printer.
You have choice on how to feed the printer. WiFi, Octoprint (which is what I am looking at now); or for folks that like beta products go for the application. I kind of like the memory stick option for all of my prints.
- A brand new extruder - one with removable nozzles which no one else manufacture
Yes, but no - there is an adapter for sale that will let you use standard E3D V6 nozzles - so no fuss. I think Prusa is working with E3D on more support. The current extruder used by the Mark III is semi-custom...however; you can still get Prusa configured extruders from E3D. Which is what I would expect (maybe?) for the new generation.
- - (Optionally) the new motors - do you mean with the upgrade? So now we have 2 different retail non-upgraded motor configs for the MK4?!
I think you are mixing functions from Mark 3.9 which keeps the old motors versus 4.0 that upgrades it to current standard. The only thing that this brings to the end user is even higher level of smoothness for people who want it.
- - (Optionally) the MMU3 with proper integration into the printer's firmware - the MMU has always been a clunky and wasteful design...while it can produce some cool results, it is extraordinarily wasteful.
I know the MMU2 was not the best - well at least for me. If I wanted real MMU functions I would have to get a XL series. Anything that does not swap out the head would be "clunky" in my opinion.
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I always had bad luck on my timing buying new printers, I picked up the mark II right before the Mark III was released. I bought the Mark III right before the Mark IIIS was released...I spotted the notification on the Mark IV within 2 hrs of the announcement - so this time I should be on the bleeding edge versus the rusted edge of the hardware life cycle.
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
Thank you for the clarification and your use cases. I didn't know about the nozzle adapter and it's good to hear that there is an adapter.
As for the motors - that makes way more sense.
Stefan from CNC Kitchen did a review that I thought was fair but also highlights my thoughts. You can also read in the comments the sentiment being shared on this thread on both sides of the topic.
Thanks again for replying! Happy printing and glad to hear you aligned on timing with your next printer purchase!
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
I see than new MK3s+ orders include the ewer, injection molded frame and Y axis mounting plate, so no liability in calling the full upgrade a full upgrade. I doubt there is a measurable performance difference. If anything, probably more of a "feeling" something is better or worse so some skeptics.
I am in the middle of doing a Bear kit on a Mk3s+, so I hope someone makes the 3.5 compatible with it sometime soon. It would be a good middle ground, while keeping the original extruder.
I also hope they offer a way to use the new steppers with the 3.5 kit, and original extruder.
I hope they will offer just the extruder in the future too. For incremental upgrades to lessen the pain of the $579 full upgrade cost.
Also, they need to bite the bullet and include an accelerometer upgrade. There is no way a one-size-fits-all profile is going to work everywhere. You have different enclosures, different stands and tables, heck, different altitudes. All could compromise a "basic" calibration's accuracy. An Accelerometer is $5, and there is a connction on the board for it. What gives?
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
My thinking on the frame change is that it is purely down to part shortage and this way a way to source frames.
Its thicker purely as a result of an injection moulded version needed to be to remain as stuff as a laser cut one.
As for them saying it was a small performance gain… that’s probably more a marketing thing ?
RE: Mk3 to Mk4 its not a full upgrade. Not happy
My thinking on the frame change is that it is purely down to part shortage and this way a way to source frames.
Its thicker purely as a result of an injection moulded version needed to be to remain as stuff as a laser cut one.
As for them saying it was a small performance gain… that’s probably more a marketing thing ?
It could be cause it is thicker; or could be because if it acts like cast iron versus forged - cast tends to dampen vibrations at least in iron. Or it could be because of the hex pattern on the back side adding something, something magic damping. The key here is that the new mfg MRK IIIS+ is compatible with the new frame. Based on other youtube videos; my guess is that it was a small side benefit to reduce mfg delays sourcing the frame material.
My wild guess is that the impact to the prints probably less than the new motors in the MK 4 upgrade kit.