Prusameter system
I just wanted to make my own post discussing the Prusameter system in hopes that someone working at Prusa will see it and consider this feedback. I know it has been discussed by others in the past.
I do realize and appreciate that the prusameter system is a bonus for us as users, and that it doesn't need to exist at all, that said, it obviously benefits Prusa or they wouldn't do it. It drives community engagement and increases their library of objects.
The system as it is doesn't make sense to me, and it's getting worse. You can publish up to 10 models (I believe that's the number) and you get points for them, but any subsequent models you get no credit for until the end of time (other than bonuses for likes/downloads if they happen frequently enough). Makes on the other hand you can just keep posting, and while there is a limit per month, it at least resets and you can keep going next month.
This is totally backwards imo. It takes more effort to create a model than print one. If they want to guard against abuse they could do the same thing they're doing with makes and limit the number of new models you get credit for each month.
I also see that they've recently changed it from 10 points per make to "1 to 10 points per make" and the criteria isn't clear. They do say that if a model has a lot of makes you'll get fewer points, but that isn't the whole story because I got 1 point for something I printed recently that had no other makes. I suspect it was because it was quite a small model, but giving fewer points for small models isn't always fair either in my opinion. Sure, posting a make of a calibration cube might be pretty low effort but if it's something that requires adjustment of the model to fit your needs, pausing and inserting hardware or performing manual colour changes, or doing multiple reprints to make it work, and providing tips to others that might try to print it, it takes a lot more work. Also, either way you're contributing to the community and showing other people who are thinking about printing the model what they can likely expect. Honestly the last make I posted where I was awarded 1 point, it seemed almost insulting and I was ready to delete the make. I decided to post this instead.
If it was up to me it would be more like this:
15 points for a published model, no limit on total models you get credit for, but maybe a max of 3 models per month.
5 to 10 points for a make, up to 10 makes per month
25 points for a survey (instead of 50)
Existing points for downloads and likes are maybe fine, though it might be nice if there was some kind of reward for this that doesn't get reset constantly, even if it was a lesser reward. If you have a model that you get steady downloads on all year, but you only get about 20 per month, no points for you with the existing rules.
RE: Prusameter system
Prusa staff rarely visit here.
It may be better copying the message to
[email protected]
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: Prusameter system
Yeah, the principle of most contests for something is based on that if you aim to win something, you will want it and if you want it, you will buy it. 3 spools a year as a maximum is far from enough for active creators, so with a free spool you order bunch of paid ones. So it's primarily advertisement for Prusament. Secondary effect should be motivation of people to publish and help each other, to make the community more active, get bigger model database and so on. I know how lazy I am and it took me a year to get one spool including the profile filling bonus and model uploads - so the motivation for publishing makes was very low already. I see how many folks have downloaded my tracks and how tiny is amount of makes. Giving less points for make pushes the potentially most useful part of the site completely out.
Combined with all the trash challenges it transformed prusaprinters from a genuine site with mostly high quality models to a junksite like thingiverse - everyone is publishing basic 4x2 lego brick, everyone is publishing each lego brick as a separate model. The same works with so many other items - instead of item sets sorted in directories inside projects the database got flooded by one stl projects. I still think it's wrong, if I went this way, I'd have about thousand of models - nearly same models with nearly same use. But I'd get zounds of downloads, be more visible and maybe get loads of likes due to it - and potentialy lot of prusament as result. I would not do it even if there were meters for for every upload, but most would spam the database even more. What would work would be meters for milestones with every model, but for whatever reason, that was never on the table and the monthly system is only for folks with huge reach.
Problem is that there is no way back, there is no way out once this madness started. Prusa research don't even care for erotic spam in reactions to their blog posts, they dont care for IP of printables users as 3rd buggy contest award went to a model that breaks the license of remixed original and promised Honda story update was never published. I don't know whether they don't have enough manpower, whether they see printables as a nearly maintenance free advertising zone that already cost enough or they just want to have the biggest amount of published models. They had mouth full of aiming at quality (and the directories system was fit for that), but the outcome is quantity. They also failed to be indexed by search engines well, so they are still unknown to so many. But it is sad ending and I am looking for a new primary site for my creations - currently only my mini factory seem like a place with reasonable quality filtering...
My opinion may not be right, but regret having so bad and right one too often.My models are things you can't see on any shelve. I create things that don't exist and that should be the…
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I agree with much of the criticism. However, the visibility on search engines really depends. When you are looking for eg 3d printed Settlers of Catan sets and search eg for „Catan stl“ three unique complete Catan designs from printables show up at prominent positions (I follow that because one of them is mine 😉 ) two of them in the first row. When Prusa changed the domain from prusaprinters there was a short period where things just vanished from search engines but visibility has recovered since then.
To be honest, the tragic reality is that the most effective way to search printables is to do a Google image search limited to this site. It is a pity that printables degrades to a haystack where you have to search for the high quality needles, for the sake of traffic.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Prusameter system
3 spools a year as a maximum
Maximum 3 spools per year? Where did you find this notice?
Where did you find this notice?
Someone asking this sort of question has probably done a calculation based on the maximum number of elegible junk prints uploaded per annum...
Cheerio,
RE: Prusameter system
Yeah. You can get 100 meters per month for makes, or you were able to before the last change. That makes it to 1200 per year which divided by 350 is 3 full spools and 150 meters for the next one. In second year you get to 300 reserve, so with some surveys or something you might get 4. But in practical usage one proly dont make full 1200 thus 3 spools per year seemed to me as a reasonably achievable target. Without the free spool I order elsewhere as PETG color offer here is not wide enough for me and prusament is just one of good materials for good price.
My opinion may not be right, but regret having so bad and right one too often.My models are things you can't see on any shelve. I create things that don't exist and that should be the…
RE: Prusameter system
I understand ...
The total number of spools per year is therefore unlimited. I'm not going to print hundreds of makes - in fact I haven't printed any yet. I prefer to publish good designs and hope for lots of downloads and likes ... 😉
3 spools per year seemed to me as a reasonably achievable target.
That should not be a target.
Utterly pointless makes are a major detriment to the database, don't post them.
If you have some useful information, a hint or tip, and a make helps you illustrate it then *that* is a worthwile make.
Cheerio,
RE: Prusameter system
Let’s print random stuff to get free filament, so we can print more random stuff? That seems to be a flawed business model anyway.
The system is rewarding models with a lot of likes and downloads within a comparatively short time - makes sense to me. You can also get a few Prusameters for posting your makes, this encourages people to use printables.com instead of other sites, it’s not meant as a reward (like for great models) more like a bonus - makes sense to me as well.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
RE: Prusameter system
Wow.... It is unlimited only for those spending a lot on their reach. There sure you can get zounds of models with gazilions of downloads and likes. Yup. But from a normal guy perspective, it's 3 spools a year limit - pure advertisement for prusament, not an endless source of material.
Uhmmm... There is way way way worse junk ratio in the model database itself than in makes - thats because those challenges force people to publish so many lousy models. It's just like lottery or gambling, the incentive of a big "free" gain is bigger than real work to so many. Most people don't make things only to make them, most do because they downloaded a thing they wanted and they refer whether and how it works. Ofc you can get a bunch of ip addresses around the globe and create a junk farm, maybe it would even pay off in the end, but I doubt there are not better choices for people able to do that in believable fashion than that - at least there are for me. Ofc there are lousy users who may be aiming at only getting PMs for makes without any real incentive to help others, yeah.
But most makes I have seen done were reasonable proofs that the model works as expected or even a challenge for coolest make of something interesting - a challenge without any reward. That is good value for the rest.
My opinion may not be right, but regret having so bad and right one too often.My models are things you can't see on any shelve. I create things that don't exist and that should be the…
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You can see me writing against printing useless stuff available on shelves a long time ago, I got smashed by most reactions at that without any reasoning. So many people publish their (or just duplicate) 4x2 lego bricks and other completely standard stuff you can buy cheaper than print. It makes no sense at all, but these models usually get many downloads and likes - because making something genuine is beyond their imagination and using it seemingly too. The most liked and downloaded creator of standard shelve wooden rail tracks is Prusa featured designer and his tracks dont even fit most of the original pieces - nobody cares, they ever wrote an article about him on Fabbalo. Nobody cares that the guy is too lazy to measure, too lazy to fix the set when reminded repeatedly by many folks. And many folks gave him 4 stars for a make they weren't able to fit in their home setups, yes, insane, unbelievable. What we should do is push folks to think about their star rating, but it's like pushing people to think before casting their votes - extremely hard.
My opinion may not be right, but regret having so bad and right one too often.My models are things you can't see on any shelve. I create things that don't exist and that should be the…
RE: Prusameter system
Kind of hard to keep track of what the argument actually is at this point, but one thing I would point out is it is hard to get people to rate models, period. People download the stuff, you may get some likes, but makes, comments, and star ratings are a lot more rare. I entered a model into one of the current contests (first time I have done so) and it's gotten some downloads/likes, but I have no clue at this point whether this means that anyone else has actually made it.
I have given a couple of 2 star ratings when I have posted makes and I still feel kind of bad about one of them; it was just a guy who posted his model that he'd obviously put some time into, but the parts didn't fit together, I had to take a belt sander to them in order to make it work and I said so. The other one probably would have gotten another star had it just been some individual's model, but it was a company in the "maker" sphere (ie people who should be capable of better) and I had to modify a bunch of their parts to print well. That even though it is a model that has gotten a bunch of publicity elsewhere. Mentioning these cases only because I think that most of us don't want to give poor ratings because most of the users on the site are individuals like ourselves, just trying their best.
RE: Prusameter system
Wow.... It is unlimited only for those spending a lot on their reach. There sure you can get zounds of models with gazilions of downloads and likes. Yup. But from a normal guy perspective, it's 3 spools a year limit - pure advertisement for prusament, not an endless source of material.
That’s a very strange concept of the term “limit”…
About the “pure advertisement”: You make it sound like a bad thing, but seriously, what do you think Prusa’s incentive is here? Advertisement and getting users to use their platform or giving away as much filament as possible to please everyone, just because they are so nice and selfless people?
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
RE: Prusameter system
That’s a very strange concept of the term “limit”…
About the “pure advertisement”: You make it sound like a bad thing, but seriously, what do you think Prusa’s incentive is here? Advertisement and getting users to use their platform or giving away as much filament as possible to please everyone, just because they are so nice and selfless people?
I think the point he is making, is most of us usually buy filament other than Prusament. So if you get enough prusameters for a free spool, since you will be paying shipping anyway, you might as well order more spools at the same time to make it worth your while. I know that the only times I have ever ordered Prusament were when I needed to order parts from Prusa anyway; otherwise it's not really worth bothering with when I can get other brands shipped from Amazon for free. Basically the theory is that the free spool is a loss leader.
Currently I am sitting at 344 PMs and have been for a few weeks... I still have 2 collections I can fill out for 5 PMs each, or I could post a make or two and maybe get to my 350. Basically I can easily qualify for a free spool of filament anytime I want to, and yet I have not bothered. It's not really worth trying to redeem until I have something else I need to order from Prusa for some reason. If that need doesn't arise, one way I could make redeeming my PMs more worthwhile would be to order additional spools, so his point is valid. This should in no way be construed as a complaint on my part, it's just economics.
RE: Prusameter system
its up to 10 points
THERE are Rules in place I think I Discoverd some min is 3points for a make max is 10meters ! so minumum of 30 points per month on MAKES
the ModelToPrint/Make ((MTP)
MTP needs to be uploaded more then 10 days befor you get 10 points on the uploadday you get only 3-5
MTP must have at least 50 views to be warded max points
MTP needs more then 5 downloads and less then 50 for Full 10 Prusameters ((PM))
MTP over 20makes will never give you 10 PM
MTP has a gcode that got Filament use less then 10g will not give you 10PM max 6PM
......
I find more interesting the voting on the contests
AS a teatcher with 600students of interest woudt be easy to generate a cheet
Im in good luck to have a Filament factory nearby that suports the EDcenter with CRAP Filament
unless a frech colkorfull is welcopmed at any time.
THERe shoudt be a overthinking in Contest Rules MAX 2 Uploads per contest SOME uploaded 100 on Xmas contest as only SVG
SECOND at least 1 Image of the making AS MOST do take a shot on the printer anyway
3rd Image Resulution to show layer ((( THE winner of E3D has a 3mm Layerhight on his 1 feet tall Modell ))
THE team in charge is very Hard under presure AND it may also cost money if it is Prusa internal
THE Contest is for Prusa the best as one Roll Filament will gain Thousends Models and 100tousend clicks to the Advertising Partners
IM in Europ You cand belive how hard it is to lock in with Google Advertising block
Prusa may make now more money with printables then with the printers AS in First post the Sugestion to me is the SAME
Money is the way the World runs and more money is always the look after!!
TEAM You may see Different AS weall agree to the TERMS it is fully ACCEPTED
WE Germany say IT is as IT is
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I asked in another thread if entries predating the Prusameter system also qualify for points if downloads + likes are high enough for the current 30 day period.
As I did not get an answer, I just wanted to confirm here that indeed, you get points for that. Just received my first 10 points for downloads, for an entry from April 2021.
Actually I do not even care for the filament rolls, it is more an irrational reward of accomplishment. No, not the points for posting a make, but for the downloads it is. I am that simple 😉
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
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When the Prusameter system was announced, it all started counting. Nothing before that counts besides the filling of profile and having collections.
I think it is an advertisement as it fails to motivate people to what was the other incentive - do useful makes and enrich the resulting database. If they lowered the points per make, they are still making the advertisement thing as whoever aims at prusameters aims at prusament and thus might buy some anyway. But it surely kills the makes effect.
Downloads and likes effect is very clumsy, as pointed out, people with big reach can achieve big numbers quickly and noone can say they cheated their way. They just asked their community. and each of the individuals in that community has a right to take part in liking and downloading. Thus this part of rewarding is very unfair, based solely on reach and rewards everything but models quality. On the other hand, even that makes things moving. I just hate the speeches about aiming at model quality when they brought these changes in. It was so much excitement and I was bashed with my opinion...
I also hate that they reward models that break the license, I made a poll about that, please vote. This is outrageous, as it shows that they don't care. That means they wont do anything to protect authorship rights.
I hate that they promised to give update on the Honda wipe story and even after 8 months they are silent. That means they don't really care for users and its the first step to fall of thingiverse.
My opinion may not be right, but regret having so bad and right one too often.My models are things you can't see on any shelve. I create things that don't exist and that should be the…
RE: Prusameter system
I hate that they promised to give update on the Honda wipe story and even after 8 months they are silent. That means they don't really care for users and its the first step to fall of thingiverse.
It's more likely their lawyers advised them not to comment on it.
RE: Prusameter system
I disagree regarding the downloads and likes system. While it can be certainly rigged as well, it requires some serious effort. As meaningful prusameters require at least 100 unique member downloads, you would need a large bot network for a meager 60 Prusameters. Also if you tried to cash in on that, I am fairly confident that Prusa would catch the manipulation fairly soon. For professional fraudsters the reward is not that interesting either.
Downloads and likes are not totally fair but they are the best shot at rewarding entries which are actually popular among users and that is way better than rewarding just mere upload of pretty much anything. And with the lowest download+like reward (30 downloads + 3 likes in 30 days) it is not up in the stars for smaller users. Actually a number of pretty popular entries come from such users.
This system also rewards creating evergreens which just keep creating traffic (and therefore achieve prominent search engine rankings) instead of onehit wonders and that is in the very interest of the site.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4