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Linking to this thread is louis rossman, very pro-self repair.
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You could have ignored Honda because they have no legal standing in the matter. Third party manufacturers would not be able to offer non-oem replacement parts for Honda cars if this was true.
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Non oem pay a license fee. It’s their right but it’s a d*%k move
ford on the other hand is releasing 3d models so anyone can do accessories and stuff
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Louis Rossmann on the issue:
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Linking to this thread is louis rossman, very pro-self repair.
For the most part I like his take, but he's wrong when he says that just because you feel strongly about the issue, you shouldn't stop purchasing products from companies engaging in anti-aftermarket/anti-repair behavior. Denying them sales is the most effective tool we have, if it is consistently exercised. He is going to say that though because he is in the business of repairing some of those products.
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Hello;
That would be me, and you are welcome. For you it would be under the Terms of service, "User content" section 3. If you would like to debate world or local news, a 3d printing forum probably isn't the best place. Your 2 posts were removed because they were against the terms of service. Afterwards I did make a general statement asking to please keep on topic.
Not wanting to get a 3D printing site bogged down in politics is an entirely reasonable position, and it is unfortunate that the discussion about Honda (and other companies) throwing their weight around and causing legit models to be pulled is mixed up with discussion about models that are political in nature being removed. The issues are different and they would be better as separate threads.
Since that's where we are though, maybe a little insight into where some of us are coming from on that issue might be helpful in understanding the annoyance. If a site were truly apolitical that would be one thing, but the power of censorship often seems to slant in one direction primarily. I don't believe that's intentionally the case here and that you are indeed only responding to numbers of reports, thereby granting a heckler's veto to the sort of busybodies who will go to the trouble to report items they personally disagree with. You see it on social media all the time where content that violates no policy gets removed and action is taken against the person who posted it. It's your site to run however you want, but if models/postings/whatever critical of one figure/regime/group appear to be tolerated while others are not, you will keep having to field complaints about it. My preference would be to have either any model of a political nature allowed, or none of them. Maybe with exceptions for content that is obscene or advocating criminal conduct, but that's a bit of a difficult line to draw on a worldwide forum.
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I was replying to someone who asked why their posts were removed. It was about Covid with external links and honestly had nothing to do with the topic at hand, thats why I removed it. For the honda issue, it has been covered from Prusa's stand point. We got a request to remove the files, and we complied and now other people and organizations are following up with the story. As far as where it goes from there? who knows.
One thing as well is that this forum is a international forum, with an international community / members / audience. We try and balance it so it is fair to all members of the community.
Hello;
That would be me, and you are welcome. For you it would be under the Terms of service, "User content" section 3. If you would like to debate world or local news, a 3d printing forum probably isn't the best place. Your 2 posts were removed because they were against the terms of service. Afterwards I did make a general statement asking to please keep on topic.
Not wanting to get a 3D printing site bogged down in politics is an entirely reasonable position, and it is unfortunate that the discussion about Honda (and other companies) throwing their weight around and causing legit models to be pulled is mixed up with discussion about models that are political in nature being removed. The issues are different and they would be better as separate threads.
Since that's where we are though, maybe a little insight into where some of us are coming from on that issue might be helpful in understanding the annoyance. If a site were truly apolitical that would be one thing, but the power of censorship often seems to slant in one direction primarily. I don't believe that's intentionally the case here and that you are indeed only responding to numbers of reports, thereby granting a heckler's veto to the sort of busybodies who will go to the trouble to report items they personally disagree with. You see it on social media all the time where content that violates no policy gets removed and action is taken against the person who posted it. It's your site to run however you want, but if models/postings/whatever critical of one figure/regime/group appear to be tolerated while others are not, you will keep having to field complaints about it. My preference would be to have either any model of a political nature allowed, or none of them. Maybe with exceptions for content that is obscene or advocating criminal conduct, but that's a bit of a difficult line to draw on a worldwide forum.
Shane (AKA FromPrusa)
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It made it to slashdot.
Some great comments below the post.
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Slashdot picked up on it too. They're not exactly on the cutting edge of tech news anymore though.
Aaron
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The action taken by Printables, due to Honda's (legal team), is going to hurt Printables, Thingiverse, etc... and 3D printing in general.
I understand that the legal threat was/is scary and required quick action due to a rapidly approaching deadline (threat).
However, without Prusa/Printables strongly and publicly condemning Honda's request it reduces people's desire to share models for fear of having them removed. It also devalues having a 3D printer if we're not going to be able to make parts for any branded item in the future. Some may say "But it's the law", but unless you're a lawyer I don't think it's that clear cut.
Regardless, what matters is that Prusa, due to Honda's legal claims, is setting a bad precedent by carrying out the action but staying silent.
Prusa/Printables should be publicly loudly complaining and promising to legally contest the action or to look further into their members' rights.
I understand the desire to resolve the issue peacefully, but by Prusa not making a clear statement on the blog or elsewhere, it devalues Printables/3D libraries and 3D printer ownership.
I'm guessing it's the first time Prusa/Printables has received such a legal request and panicked as they're unsure of the legal aspects.
I'm sure they'll do better next time, knowing what's appropriate/legal - but the lack of an official message is disappointing.
In the meantime I hope Printables, Thingiverse, etc... get together and pool funding for a legal defense fund.
There's still lots of Honda models on Thingiverse - they must know they're likely next?
If there already is a public message by Prusa/Printables I'd be happy to have someone share the link.
Kind regards,
C-
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Nice for Ford>>Honda in regards to maker movement
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That video and the FITS system Ford came up with matched my own experience with the company. They aren't perfect for sure, but in general they get that cultivating the fan base is good for the bottom line.
For example, when I bought my Mustang, owner club materials came along with all the financial, warranty, etc. paperwork with the car. When I got under it to mess with the exhaust I was struck that it was clearly designed with the idea that owners would be doing exactly what I was--and they made sure it was easy. I read that aftermarket companies had received preproduction cars so they could have parts for new owners ready when the car launched (i.e., day 1 of my model's release you could go buy aftermarket parts and modify your car immediately). Lastly, I met Henry Ford III at a local show and he is clearly an enthusiast. This is the way to do it, not sending nasty takedown letters to enthusiasts and organizations supporting them.
Back to this specific issue. I am sure Prusa is working behind the scenes to get this resolved, and often you don't want to be talking in public about in-progress legal negotiations.
Mini+ (kit) - Revo Micro | Antler Cooling | WiFi (4.4.0RC1)
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https://www.printables.com/model/174509-fck-honda
That’s what I think.
As to whether or not to poke the bear, ram a span a re-bar through Honda’s ears and hang them up. Social media was made for this kind of stuff. Already posted an article on Facebook (I’m old). I’d encourage people to take as many bites at the bear as they can. I’m in the market for a car, and probably wouldn’t buy a Honda, but there is no frickin’ way I’d buy one now.
Broad net, short time to respond- screw them.
Make them pay twice. Once to the lawyers for putting that crap together, and now in the public arena.
Honda: Good engineering, awesome engines, horrible company.
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This hasn't been settled. If you make a model for a key chain that says "Honda" on it, ya they have the right to ask you to take it down. If you make a vent mount for a phone that fit's a "Honda Civic" it's clear cut that you have the right to make that and it's plain as day fair use of the word "Honda". Otherwise how would Auto Zone, Amazon or any other company that makes aftermarket parts be able to sell them? Ya they can't say this is a "honda genuine" part but they can say this brake pad fits a 2008 Honda Civic. The fact that Prusa is just folding and taking anything with the word "Honda" in the description makes me very angry that they can't put up any kind of a better fight then that. The trademark and copyright law has been designed and ruled to make sure there isn't confusion. No one is confusing a 3d printed model of a washer fluid cap for a 1995 Honda Civic for a Honda made part.
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You missed the point. The amount of companies that respect right to repair are a tiny fraction of the companies that don't. The tiny fraction of us that care about right to repair aren't going to make a dent. We need people to realize that their food prices are higher because of right to repair. Their medical costs are higher because hospitals have to trash a 10,000 dollar device because they can't get a $5 part. This isn't about phones, or computers or any other gadget. It's just about every single thing we buy and interact with.
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remind me to never buy a honda but i am not taking them to court because their intellectual property could be valid & if there was something i would make it a public relations operation not a court room case all i can recommend is to #BoycottHonda
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Some of the comments in this thread made me laugh so hard (IP)ed
The Filament Whisperer
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You missed the point. The amount of companies that respect right to repair are a tiny fraction of the companies that don't. The tiny fraction of us that care about right to repair aren't going to make a dent. We need people to realize that their food prices are higher because of right to repair. Their medical costs are higher because hospitals have to trash a 10,000 dollar device because they can't get a $5 part. This isn't about phones, or computers or any other gadget. It's just about every single thing we buy and interact with.
A good example of this is an article I read a while back about farmers having to fight with John Deere over who gets to maintain and repair the tractors. It is a broader issue, and with enough pushback companies will change their behavior. It's happened before, and recently.
Mini+ (kit) - Revo Micro | Antler Cooling | WiFi (4.4.0RC1)
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I suppose maybe an option could be the fair use route? Time to start creating 'parody' models of H*nda accessori- ahem, I mean sculptures- that make fun of them? 🤡
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A footnote; after around 30 years of owning Honda ATVs exclusively, I sure like my new Suzuki King Quad.