It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits  

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

This would be very sad.  The high-quality kits are what makes Prusa special - if they don't have a kit then the printers will of course become less repairable, and the cost of ownership will go up.  At that point Bambu will have won.  I for one will never buy a pre-built printer (although "never" isn't as long for me as some others here 😀 ).

It's not obvious to me that kit owners require any more cost to support than pre-built owners.  There's a trade-off between ability to try onsite repairs (kit owners) versus sending back the entire printer (pre-built owners).

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

After my Bambo 5 head nightmare experience I opted for the XL SINGLE head semi assembled. 

I decided no more complexity!

It's been just fine

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

This was discussed before but maybe not on this forum.

There is more and more people that buy printer as a tool, and not treat it as a project - which means people want to have a printer working in 5 minutes, instead of two days... So just doing short survey among people that bough the printers and then confronting it with the raw data from the support statistics would be enough to make a decision to restrict kits availability over time.

I suspect the kit versions will not be available except in a fragments available in the store for a repair only.

I believe a lot of people overestimate their ability to assemble the printer, and this leads to non working printer and extra work for the support team - which just causes unwanted stress for both sides. Add to it time required to investigate the issue by remote hands, solutions slowed down by post service and this makes things much worse to the point people start to vent over social media causing bad PR.

Having assembly in house hey can solve an issue within minutes and not weeks, can also handle batch errors better.

RE:

I was actually a little sad when I finished my build (after 18 hrs) and everything (more or less) worked when I flipped on the switch. It was a very fun build. A few glitches at first but now it's a reliable workhorse. 

I'm joking of course, but maybe Prusa should require a license for purchasing a kit. Like they give you an exam and if you don't pass it you can't buy the kit. 

1. A philips head screw driver has what kind of tip?

   a. plus

   b. minus

   c. hexagon

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

3d printing has become a commodity. Prusa may have quite a bit to catch up here on the best of days. There may be - sadly - only a limited market outside "enthusiast space" for machines that can perform miracles in the hands of that one underpaid guy who lives and breathes 3D printing and knows how to tune gantry and belts but just decided to get a real job.

And yes, the noise level from failed kits doesn't exactly help.

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

This doesn't seem like a great way to handle it. You might be able to adapt it to being a recommendation on the way to purchase, but prohibiting purchase based on a licensure test seems a little extreme. Someone might buy the kit for another, or they will have someone do the work for them, etc. There are going to be scenarios where the person purchasing will not be the one assembling.  Some people also may think they are just up to the challenge. 

Having instead a large bar in the cart or perhaps when adding it to the cart having a pop-up that says "This is a kit version. It requires technical know-how to assemble. If you are unsure of your abilities, take this brief knowledge check test to give you an idea of your readiness" Or something similar but less verbose, might alleviate some of the perceived strain.

Regardless, there will always be noob questions. And if someone is going to the trouble of trying to learn how to assemble the printer themselves, I would think they'd have fewer and more intelligent questions over time than the user that has the "printer go brrrr" mindset because by assembling they learn the core mechanics and can reason out and intuit more because they are gaining technical knowledge.

Just my two cents though. I just don't think adding barriers to entry is a great idea. Give people the information they need to make the best choice they can, and then let them decide for themselves. If it doesn't go as planned, they learn from it. Bambu has a walled garden, I hope Prusa never goes that path. I don't mind if it's optional but just not the only option. 

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I think you missed the part where I said I was joking... None the less, I think the complexity of printers are reaching a point where they are beyond the ability of some or more people and they would be better off purchasing an assembled unit. 

Posted by: @jiggly-sackles

This doesn't seem like a great way to handle it. You might be able to adapt it to being a recommendation on the way to purchase, but prohibiting purchase based on a licensure test seems a little extreme. Someone might buy the kit for another, or they will have someone do the work for them, etc. There are going to be scenarios where the person purchasing will not be the one assembling.  Some people also may think they are just up to the challenge. 

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

I didn't miss it. But sometimes people will read things like that and not consider that it might be a bad idea even if you are joking, so just wanted to throw in a comment about it. Was just more wordy than I probably needed to be. 🙂

I don't disagree at all that less technical people should just get a pre-assembled version. I just hope the kits never go away.

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

I'll add in a "/s" next time to be clear. Anyway, this is what Prusa should be doing with regard to these kits.

Here is an example:

Vortek Upgrade Kit

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

Unfortunately, at least here in the US, very few children today get any kind of education in industrial arts (shop class).  Schools need all the time they can get to 'teach to the test' so their students can pass all the proficiency tests they have to take to prove the school isn't a complete failure.  Plus the fear of liability lawsuits in the event little Johnnie were to get a splinter in his finger so work shops in the schools are no more.  Younger people today have no real idea how basic machinery works or how to use simple hand tools.   Neighbor came over the other day to see if I had a screwdriver to fit a very small screw holding the cover on a battery compartment closed.  He didn't know what kind of screw it was, just that it was small.  Was a Torx screw and he was absolutely blown away when he saw all the different bits in one of my screwdriver kits.    Had no idea that such things even existed.  Everything looks easy on YouTube so everyone thinks they can assemble anything, especially with Prusa supplying the tools!  

With labor costs today it probably costs as much, if not more, to gather up all the components and package a kit as it does to just assemble the device in the first place.  At least then the assembly is under the manufacturer's control and eliminates a lot of variables tech support then has to deal with.  Hate to see it but I can understand why kit versions are doomed.

RE:

I can 100% understand why Prusa is not offering a Core One L as a kit given that the bed is mains powered. As well as the inescapable fact that the printer is now more complicated to assemble than some people's skillset. 

The liability insurance alone would make this uneconomical to sell as a kit. Gone are the days when you could have one of these on your kitchen table: Gilbert U-238 Atomic Energy Laboratory

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

As far as me, if Prusa abandons the kit option, they will lose that sale.

The kit option was invaluable to get me hands-on for 3D printing and understanding how it works and maintaining it.

I can understand that for more complicated/industrial machines but given the competition out there can they afford loosing their base?

RE:

Posted by: @richnormand

As far as me, if Prusa abandons the kit option, they will lose that sale.

The kit option was invaluable to get me hands-on for 3D printing and understanding how it works and maintaining it.

I can understand that for more complicated/industrial machines but given the competition out there can they afford loosing their base?

They won't lose their base if they can continue to innovate. The BondTech INDX is a step in the right direction. I still feel that Prusa will stay relevant though to prosumers and print farms. Also, they are still the easiest printer to self repair even if not originally a kit. 

RE:

I'll agree with that. Also the good repair ethics and service.

RE:

I can understand that for more complicated/industrial machines but given the competition out there can they afford loosing their base?

If you mean that they just lost kit buyers only because of that move, then yeah - I bet the income from kits was not worth it because it would later trigger increased volume of help requests. The number of people knowing their assembly skills which can follow the assembly documentation is much smaller than the rest of the people that think that the printer assembly is like IKEA - its rather like a complex LEGO and not everyone is ready for that.

This means the mony people saved on kit device (by not assembling it in the factory) is lost in work and time on both sides - the buyers and the sellers (to support the buyers), and Prusa probably decided it takes too much effort on support line, effectively also affecting people with preassembled devices because support cannot help them because they need to handle people with kits in the same time - thus the unskilled user base with kits affects everyone in a negative way. So just eliminating the kit it solves a lot of issues from the beginning.

If you are kit buyer only - well, I bet they can survive without you buying their product no matter what your skill is, because there will be noticeable more people buying already working machine.

I wonder what is the percent of the kit sales vs fully assembled/preassembled ones for other devices....

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

Posted by: @_kaszpir_

This means the mony people saved on kit device (by not assembling it in the factory) is lost in work and time on both sides - the buyers and the sellers (to support the buyers), and Prusa probably decided it takes too much effort on support line, effectively also affecting people with preassembled devices because support cannot help them because they need to handle people with kits in the same time - thus the unskilled user base with kits affects everyone in a negative way. So just eliminating the kit it solves a lot of issues from the beginning.

If you are kit buyer only - well, I bet they can survive without you buying their product no matter what your skill is, because there will be noticeable more people buying already working machine.

I wonder what is the percent of the kit sales vs fully assembled/preassembled ones for other devices....

Agree. The cost of labor time and packaging materials to put a kit together is probably not much less than the cost of assembling a printer; and then a disproportionate share of support cost comes on top of that for the kits. Since customers expect the kits to be significantly cheaper than a fully assembled printer, I assume Prusa's margins for the kits are quite a bit lower than for the assembled printers.

I trust that we will continue to see kits for upgrades and options (MMU, INDX, Core One+ update and hopefully more substantial upgrades in the future). But maybe no more complete printer kits. Which means Prusa will lose some "hardcore" hobbyists to companies selling Voron kits. But the market growth is in the "consumer" sector where users just want to print. The Core One L launch focused a lot on "unpack, plug in, start" -- for a good reason I think.      

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

Posted by: @jurgen-7

Posted by: @_kaszpir_

This means the mony people saved on kit device (by not assembling it in the factory) is lost in work and time on both sides - the buyers and the sellers (to support the buyers), and Prusa probably decided it takes too much effort on support line, effectively also affecting people with preassembled devices because support cannot help them because they need to handle people with kits in the same time - thus the unskilled user base with kits affects everyone in a negative way. So just eliminating the kit it solves a lot of issues from the beginning.

If you are kit buyer only - well, I bet they can survive without you buying their product no matter what your skill is, because there will be noticeable more people buying already working machine.

I wonder what is the percent of the kit sales vs fully assembled/preassembled ones for other devices....

Agree. The cost of labor time and packaging materials to put a kit together is probably not much less than the cost of assembling a printer; and then a disproportionate share of support cost comes on top of that for the kits. Since customers expect the kits to be significantly cheaper than a fully assembled printer, I assume Prusa's margins for the kits are quite a bit lower than for the assembled printers.

I trust that we will continue to see kits for upgrades and options (MMU, INDX, Core One+ update and hopefully more substantial upgrades in the future). But maybe no more complete printer kits. Which means Prusa will lose some "hardcore" hobbyists to companies selling Voron kits. But the market growth is in the "consumer" sector where users just want to print. The Core One L launch focused a lot on "unpack, plug in, start" -- for a good reason I think.      

The statement that there is more support required for people who put their kits together themselves is an assumption - there is no data to support this as of yet.  One could argue the more technically proficient kit builder is more likely to solve their own problems, or at least spend the time to research or use the forums to get a solution before resorting to the support line.  I myself would rather work with other users to find the root cause of a problem than have support use the "shotgun" approach until something works.

But it's also possible support costs are higher for kits.  How will we ever know...?

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

Posted by: @mike-b-3

 The statement that there is more support required for people who put their kits together themselves is an assumption - there is no data to support this as of yet.  One could argue the more technically proficient kit builder is more likely to solve their own problems, or at least spend the time to research or use the forums to get a solution before resorting to the support line.  I myself would rather work with other users to find the root cause of a problem than have support use the "shotgun" approach until something works.

But it's also possible support costs are higher for kits.  How will we ever know...?

The data we do have is that on this forum, a large number of questions comes from kit builders, and these questions often take much longer to resolve than the typical non-kit-related questions. At least that is the case on the Core One sub-forum where I am mostly participating.

Of course it's possible that kit builders are more likely to come here instead of turning to support. (That's also an assumption.) But in any case, I reckon that the more lengthy troubleshooting dialogs for kits problems apply to Prusa support as much as they do here. There is simply a much broader spectrum of things that might have gone wrong... 

RE: It wouldn't surprise me if Prusa abandons kits

In my case, after building my Core One I was having problems with gantry alignment, the motor housing ground issue and the load cell noise issue. After spending many hours with Prusa support and getting no where (except for the gantry issue) I gave up and discovered these forums. I didn't know it existed until one of the support guys shunted me here because they couldn't solve the printer crashing on long diagonals (the motor grounding issue) and they were going to send me new motors.