Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
Some time ago, either here or on 'another network' (forget which), there was some speculation that Layerneer, a product I use regularly as both an adhesion booster and release agent, it really re-packaged hair spray.
I mentioned this to the stylist that both I and my wife go to, and she said that she is familiar with most hair care products, both professional and consumer lines, and she would be willing to see if she could readily identify if the Layerneer is something common.
On this latest appointment, I took a bottle of Layerneer and showed it to her. I specifically mentioned the slight fragrance, and she smelled it and agreed that it was very typical of 'unscented' non-aerosol hair sprays.
She then dispensed an amount of Layerneer and proceeded to kind of rapidly work it back and forth and tap it with her thumb and two fingers. 'This is how we test sprays for holding power.' She invited me to try it, and I did, and sure enough, in several seconds, a tacky feeling emerged and became more of a definite sticky feeling.
She says that it very well could be any of several liquid, unscented, non-aerosol hair sprays, such as sold under the brand name Rave or others. 'Or it might be a similar product with another purpose altogether.' She said that you can get the Rave products at Wally World or about anywhere and the sprays usually retail for a few dollars (US $).
I would call this 'inconclusively conclusive' that, indeed, Layerneer may be a repackaged hairspray.
I will most likely continue to use the Layerneer brand, as it works well and I like the applicator bottle. It's usually $20-ish on Amazon and a bottle lasts MONTHS, actually, I think it's been over a year since I had to order any and I use it with both printers.
RE:
I think you are right. I was hesitant to post it, but I found this several months ago. I use hair spray rather religiously as a release agent with PETG on several of my stickier beds.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
bottle lasts MONTHS, actually, I think it's been over a year since I had to order any and I use it with both printers.
I use it rarely and my bottle has lasted me well over a year on four printers. No idea what's in it but it does the job and it's super easy to apply.
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
Rave is one of the cheapest you can get. Not the best for your hair, but LOL neither is the stuff I use.
I use Got2b Glued most of the time, both for hair and printing. It really helps for things like small PLA things. I do occasionally use stick glue as well.
I'm sure most any firm hold spray will work. Just don't use sprays with other stuff in them.
RE: Interesting -- Similar Product
I use 3DLAC PLUS and I always suspected it was a "hairspray" derivative. I just checked and the information in the SDS is provided by: LAISEVEN COSMETICS, S.L. It does say it is specifically for 3D printing, so I wouldn't try it on my hair.
Layerneer SDS info is provided by Layerneer.
Maybe I should consider changing if I can.
Kenn
Quality is the Journey, not the Destination. My limited prints->
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
I use 3DLAC PLUS and I always suspected it was a "hairspray" derivative. I just checked and the information in the SDS is provided by: LAISEVEN COSMETICS, S.L. It does say it is specifically for 3D printing, so I wouldn't try it on my hair.
Layerneer SDS info is provided by Layerneer.
Maybe I should consider changing if I can.
Kenn
Interesting, thanks.
The Layerneer folks are very vague as to what's actually in it.
The 3dLac folks are more forthcoming, and it looks like some kind of a vinyl acetate binder is the main active ingredient.
Since they admit it comes from a cosmetic supplier, the hairspray conjecture appears to hold, no pun intended. 😉
I say that if you are happy using the 3dLac product, there's no reason to change.
I just looked up 3dLac on Amazon. They have it, for US $35 and change for 400ml.
By contrast, Amazon sells Layerneer for US $22 and change for 180ml. This makes the 3dLac a bit less expensive per ML than Layerneer.
If I did not have two mostly full bottles of Layerneer here, I would try 3dLac, and I may do so when one of the Layerneer bottles runs out, but a little of it goes a very long way, so it will be a while.
There's also a similar product called MagiGoo, and I think it's been mentioned here off and on. I have no clue what's in that one.
RE:
I am using Magigoo PC and Dimafix sticks. They differ very clearly from each other but both do separate over time so are probably a polymer dissolved in some solvent (maybe dimafix is some sort of "ABS juice"? but with a very sweet solvent smell). The regular Magigoo (rather than the PC version) is possibly quite similar to Dimafix however.
Magigoo PC works fantastically with Prusament PC Blend. Fillamentum ASA sticks way too hard to the Dimafix interestingly but works great with Magigoo PC as well. It does stick less to Magigoo PC, but actually to an extend where one easily remove the parts after cooldown.
Both products claim that adhesion is much stronger at elevated temperatures (above 60°C) which from personal observation appears to be true.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
I use 3DLAC PLUS and I always suspected it was a "hairspray" derivative. I just checked and the information in the SDS is provided by: LAISEVEN COSMETICS, S.L. It does say it is specifically for 3D printing, so I wouldn't try it on my hair.
Layerneer SDS info is provided by Layerneer.
Maybe I should consider changing if I can.
Kenn
Interesting, thanks.
The Layerneer folks are very vague as to what's actually in it.
The 3dLac folks are more forthcoming, and it looks like some kind of a vinyl acetate binder is the main active ingredient.
Since they admit it comes from a cosmetic supplier, the hairspray conjecture appears to hold, no pun intended. 😉
I say that if you are happy using the 3dLac product, there's no reason to change.
I just looked up 3dLac on Amazon. They have it, for US $35 and change for 400ml.
By contrast, Amazon sells Layerneer for US $22 and change for 180ml. This makes the 3dLac a bit less expensive per ML than Layerneer.
If I did not have two mostly full bottles of Layerneer here, I would try 3dLac, and I may do so when one of the Layerneer bottles runs out, but a little of it goes a very long way, so it will be a while.
There's also a similar product called MagiGoo, and I think it's been mentioned here off and on. I have no clue what's in that one.
3DLAC is nearly identical in performance to Layerneer. It sprays on and washes off. I would say the spray is very convenient to get a thin layer. I also like Magigoo PC and Dimafix. I have tested a bunch of other brands also. The problem I have with sticks is that is can go on too thick. Layerneer and 3dLac are easier to get thin.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE:
I just print with PLA and PETG now, so 3DLAC works great for me. I will still look for some Layerneer (from some place except amazon).
Spay is convenient for thin layer, but more wasteful due to the spray pattern.
Kenn
Quality is the Journey, not the Destination. My limited prints->
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
Looks like the options are eBay and Amazon. Even Layerneer not sells it through Amazon.
I just print with PLA and PETG now, so 3DLAC works great for me. I will still look for some Layerneer (from some place except amazon).
Spay is convenient for thin layer, but more wasteful due to the spray pattern.
Kenn
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
Yes, as long as I remember, the Layerneer site linked to Amazon for sales.
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
I suspect that is for distribution purposes. You’d an get on heck of a deal if you distribute solely through them. I suspect the sales from eBay are actually Amazon also.
Yes, as long as I remember, the Layerneer site linked to Amazon for sales.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
So the mystery remains! But with more clues. 🙂 We will never know what the Layerneer proprietary polymer is. but it appears to be safe, and it works.
Kenn
Quality is the Journey, not the Destination. My limited prints->
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
A quick call to our friendly stylist confirmed that (poly)vinyl acetate is indeed a common primary component of many hair sprays.
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
PVA? So the adhesive would be basically the same as in a Kores stick? The consistency and formulation however is propably quite different.
Kores adhesive does not simply rinse off with water without help by some spongue or something, I wonder why Layerneer is easier to clean off from what people are telling (I don't have first hand experience with it though).
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE:
PVA? So the adhesive would be basically the same as in a Kores stick? The consistency and formulation however is propably quite different.
Kores adhesive does not simply rinse off with water without help by some spongue or something, I wonder why Layerneer is easier to clean off from what people are telling (I don't have first hand experience with it though).
Well, it would be an acetate and not an alcohol, but most definitely in the same family.
I use alcohol (IPA or denatured) to clean off both the Kores and Layerneer. It seems like denatured alcohol cuts the Kores residue a bit better than IPA.
I use PVA filament quite a bit on the Ultimaker printer for support material, and it's definitely water-soluble, but it does take time to dissolve. I suspect that Kores would dissolve in H2O as well, given enough time.
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
I use soap and water with a sponge to clean both off. I usually follow that with a spray of alcohol and a low-lint towel.
PVA? So the adhesive would be basically the same as in a Kores stick? The consistency and formulation however is propably quite different.
Kores adhesive does not simply rinse off with water without help by some spongue or something, I wonder why Layerneer is easier to clean off from what people are telling (I don't have first hand experience with it though).Well, it would be an acetate and not an alcohol, but most definitely in the same family.
I use alcohol (IPA or denatured) to clean off both the Kores and Layerneer. It seems like denatured alcohol cuts the Kores residue a bit better than IPA.
I use PVA filament quite a bit on the Ultimaker printer for support material, and it's definitely water-soluble, but it does take time to dissolve. I suspect that Kores would dissolve in H2O as well, given enough time.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
Silly me, yes indeed. You wrote acetate not alcohol.
Yes Kores does dissolve in water, it just takes long when the layer is not very thin. The thing is that with Dimafix and Magigoo PC they are basically fully rinseable. I usually just flush them off with water and then wipe them dry with a paper towel and that is good enough to make the plate ready for a fresh layer of adhesive. With Kores I need to rinse either much longer or help with some spongue or so.
Since I have started using adhesive, I rarely even use IPA and haven't had any adhesion issues whatsoever.
Mk3s MMU2s, Voron 0.1, Voron 2.4
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
One thing you can do with Layerneer or a similar adhesion booster, to an extent, is to kind of buff it up with an alcohol-soaked paper towel and refresh it after a print, and it will still be good for more prints.
I've found that this works particularly well on the Prusa textured build plate and the Ultimaker glass plate. Experience will tell you when it's best to clean it all off and start over with a fresh Layerneer coat.
RE: Interesting -- What Layerneer is made of?
I've been thinking (yeah, dangerous I know) and I'm wondering if your Layerner might be more of a wig spray, as in for synthetic hair as opposed to natural human hair. Wig hair would be closer to 3d filament than natural human hair would be.