I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature".
My garage is about 9 degC today, and my printer won't start (MINTEMP error) which is totally ridiculous.
After the laying on of hands, I finally get the build plate and hotend up to 11 degC or so, and the printer then starts fine.
The fact that this is still a problem is ridiculous. Ridiculous. Please fix it.
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Prusa have made some decisions based on their experience of variables which affect safety.
thermistors are not precision sensors, as the temperature goes lower, the difference in resistance which causes the temperature estimate between different temperatures becomes very small, I suspect they are worried that the large sample of controllers, thermistors and build quality/ component tollerances could leave them at risk of legal action.
On the Mk1 & mk2 I believe the mintemp error threshold was 15C. in today's litigious environment, I suspect it is unlikely that Prusa will address this issue to your satisfaction
However prusa do provide source code, which you could use to lower the mintemp threshold, at your own risk.
here is a knowledge base article on the matter
https://help.prusa3d.com/article/mintemp-error-and-mintemp-bed_2169
Dan's updated start gcode may help you
https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/dve5br/workaround_for_cold_room_mintemp_bed_error_sample/
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Thanks Joan. Prusa could easily solve this by allowing the user to override the error via the LCD display and turn-wheel. What argument would you have against that option? Thanks, Rob
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
I have no argument, I try to offer help when people report issues on the forum.
this is a functional change request which would be best raised on the Prusa Git hub for your printer.
in the mean time,
did you try Dan's updated start gcode?
if that works for you, and you save the profile, you will not even need to choose to overide the safety feature on the LCD and you will be able to continue printing today.
github requests usually take longer than that.
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Thanks Joan, sorry I did not mean "argument" in an arguing way 🙂 but rather I was asking if you could think of a reason not to have an override via the LCD. Something like "MinTemp: override Y/n".
I could try the gcode trick... thanks for pointing that one out to me 🙂
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Some tweak to handle startups in cold rooms (like garages) might be useful.
As for adding an option to disable MINTEMP checking. If it were me, I would be reluctant to make it too easy to disable a safety feature.
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Hi JimB,
Have you had a look at the second link in my first post on this thread?
the User Dan, seems to have set up Gcode to Nudge the heatbed / hot end, a tiny bit at a time in order to heat the component but not trigger the Mintemp error, in order to start the printer in a cold environment.
Me, I use hand heat, or a coffee mug near the extruder / bed thermistor positions...
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Joan, LOL. I wish someone would make a noise on JP's ear about this. Fancy ANY piece of equipment needing a coffee cup or a hot hand to get it started. This is absurd and embarrassing for such an expensive printer. And it has been going on for years.
The fact is -- this is just BAD design. Period. And it could (and should) be easily fixed in software.
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
I see why the error is there, and how running the heaters to check the thermistors might be the way to fix it.
Quality can be found in the details
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
some of the hardest tasks in software development are the ' Can't you just.... ' tasks.
some of the updates in the firmware have been developed and forwarded by members of the forum who have taken the time to look at an issue that irritates them, and resolve it for them selves and then forward their resolution to prusa for consideration. the source code for prusa firmware, is available on the internet, perhaps you could demonstrate how easy it is to safely resolve this issue. and pass the information on to Prusa.
As for hand heat or a coffee mug. they are my simple alternatives to asking for a company to remove a safety feature on every customers' printer.
to the best of my knowledge, Jo Prusa does not develop the firmware himself these days, he has teams of developers to do that.
the developers hang out on the GIT HUB Pages. Github is an interface between the community and the developers where concerned members of the community can raise issues, for the developers to consider. again, to the best of my knowledge the Mintemp issue has been raised there several times already, perhaps you could add your voice to the situation, directly into the ears of the developers.
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/issues/3053 is probably the most active and useful issue on the github for the Mk3 firmware regarding this. There are others if the OP would care to search.
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Most commercial electronics don't usually like anything colder than 50 degrees F. that's why at 11 Degrees C your machine ran well. I suppose you could ask Prusa to build you a machine out of MIL-Spec parts that can operate in the colder temperatures, but then again you would probably have to pay about double what you paid for it.
Tom
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
I would get a cheap infrared lamp to keep food warm and use it to heat your printer a few minutes before using it.
I would suspect the mechanics, oils, belts and electronics would be happier.
Take into account the heating power required on the bed with larger dwell times as well as the linearity of the thermistors for accurate readings at the low temperatures.
REPAIR, RENEW, REUSE, RECYCLE, REBUILD, REDUCE, RECOVER, REPURPOSE, RESTORE
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
LOL, given that Prusa are not exactly low-end, perhaps they should supply one with each printer !
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Most commercial electronics don't usually like anything colder than 50 degrees F. that's why at 11 Degrees C your machine ran well. I suppose you could ask Prusa to build you a machine out of MIL-Spec parts that can operate in the colder temperatures, but then again you would probably have to pay about double what you paid for it.
Tom
Um, no, that is just false. Does you phone stop working if the temperature goes below 11 degC? Didn't think so. What about your washing machine? Car? Shall I go on?
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Most commercial electronics don't usually like anything colder than 50 degrees F. that's why at 11 Degrees C your machine ran well. I suppose you could ask Prusa to build you a machine out of MIL-Spec parts that can operate in the colder temperatures, but then again you would probably have to pay about double what you paid for it.
Tom
Um, no, that is just false. Does you phone stop working if the temperature goes below 11 degC? Didn't think so. What about your washing machine? Car? Shall I go on?
Some phones throttle to stop the battery from going bad quickly in the cold.
Same with computers and Raspberry pis.
Something like the randy probably wouldn't do well in the cold especially the stepperdrivers
Please help me out by downloading a model it's free and easy but really helps me out https://www.printables.com/@Hello_474427/models
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
I knew somebody who burned their house down using a similar strategy trying to keep electro-mechanical parts warm enough to operate in their garage in the winter. Fortunately, everyone escaped unharmed.
I would get a cheap infrared lamp to keep food warm and use it to heat your printer a few minutes before using it.
I would suspect the mechanics, oils, belts and electronics would be happier.
Take into account the heating power required on the bed with larger dwell times as well as the linearity of the thermistors for accurate readings at the low temperatures.
Whatever you find to do with your hands, do with all your might!
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Sorry to hear that.
1)
These are just to keep the food warm. They are like a regular lightbulb. You can touch them with your hands.
2)
""and use it to heat your printer a few minutes before "" not the whole time....
3)
Using the printer unattended in a garage is probably more of an issue. I have a fire alarm beside mine and keep the IPA and such away from the printer.
I knew somebody who burned their house down using a similar strategy trying to keep electro-mechanical parts warm enough to operate in their garage in the winter. Fortunately, everyone escaped unharmed.
I would get a cheap infrared lamp to keep food warm and use it to heat your printer a few minutes before using it.
I would suspect the mechanics, oils, belts and electronics would be happier.
Take into account the heating power required on the bed with larger dwell times as well as the linearity of the thermistors for accurate readings at the low temperatures.
REPAIR, RENEW, REUSE, RECYCLE, REBUILD, REDUCE, RECOVER, REPURPOSE, RESTORE
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
Folks, as I said above, a simple way to solve this is to use the LCD display to ask a question:
"MINTEMP error. Temperature too low. Press and hold the button for 5 seconds to manually preheat the bed and hotend."
Something like that. Easy to do in code.
The current behaviour is embarassing for Prusa.
Imagine I went to my electric car this morning and it said: "Sorry, MINTEMP error. 10 degC outside."
In fact, it is worse for Prusa, because the car has a battery which maybe is not good at very low temperatures.
Prusa printer MINTEMP errors however are simple to fix (which a warm hand, cup of coffee, heat lamp, hot air gun...)
RE: I would like to once again state my annoyance at a stupid software "feature"
The car is also designed to be used outdoors in outdoor conditions. The printer is not.