400 x 400 Prusa Printer?  

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Posted by: CybrSage

Posted by: katie.o

All Prusa need to do is introduce a large scale version which just nudges up the standard with their typical quality - most of this is instant through better quality parts they already use, better quality control etc.

Likewise there's no need for massive innovation here or fundamental redesign as we can see by peers using very similar designs and receiving 'best of' awards for the same.

Why not do it yourself then, to prove it is as easy as you claim it is to do.

I am contemplating this very thing.  

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

As posted recently I have been working in the larger print area as I need to print larger items.. Like Charles I have had issues with the CR10S-Pro, exactly the same issues in fact, I have not yet replaced the tube, have ordered the Capric., but for now, in order to change filament I must remove the pressure fitting, feed the new filament into the tube and reassemble. I replaced the stock bed with the tempered glass, and it has been good. The Print quality is acceptable, even good, and I find the user interface easy to use, I live adjust the first layers on larger prints.. It is still an I3 design expansion and is in my opinion pressing the limits of that, and its own mechanics, it shakes and shimmies with larger prints.. It is a heavy bed.

I have been working with the Sidewinder X1 as well, soon will have 3 of them, the stock extruder setup is where I am focusing and will replace the volcano-titan setup with a standard BMG-E3Don the second machine and dedicate the 3rd to carbon fiber, not sure what that will look like.. yet.   Again, it is a good machine, great cost-performance and a bit better stability than the CR10S-Pro, but there is not a great deal better print quality.. It is definitely more about the cost difference and the direct-drive vs the bowden, more material capability and less of the bowden type problems. But it is also an I3 derivative is has a very heavy bed..

I think, the I3 design, the physics of the bed-slinger, may be the real reason that larger size print areas just need a different approach, so like many others, I have already begun building a CoreXY .. the first is 300x300x500, it is partially built, and have already started planing and ordering parts for  400 x 400 x 500.. Right now I am sort of  getting used to the time slices:  5% design, 5 % build, 90% waiting on parts .. 

If Prusa does begin to move into the larger build area arena, I would hope the I3 design would not be used. I think to really continue to give high quality results, in the larger build area FDM/FFM printers you have to stop slinging the bed back and forth OR REALLY heavily reinforce to stop the vibrations.

The height on the I3 (MK3S) should be easier to adjust without too much work, but perhaps the I3 design is just reaching its limits.. time to evolve?

P.S. New record for resale .. Put my oldest MK3, pretty heavily used and upgraded to an S, up for sale and the listing  lasted 30 minutes before I got the first acceptable offer and the buy completed yesterday.. I need the space for the new printers, the MK3S is still my favorite and goto printer for under 210 mm height, am down to 4 of them now..

An upgraded Ender -3, surpising good, and the  CR10S-Pro, once the upgrades are finished, are the next printers to go .. I need more space..

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Why not do it yourself then, to prove it is as easy as you claim it is to do.

A somewhat fatuous comment given it inherently undermines any commercial capability or skill of Prusa themselves - ie if you'd like a larger engine on your car, it's easy enough for Ford to make one, but why don't you just build a car yourself????

I like to believe that Prusa would be able to bring some expertise to the matter, but that it wouldn't be a radically complex challenge that's beyond a logical step for them - especially as they have countless competitors already doing this and producing good results at cost points well below even the MK3 - giving them room to invest in quality.

That said, I'm considering all options as others are - corexy selfbuild (although tricky when time poor), modding up some of the strong competitors mentioned or selecting a best in class.

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Posted by: katie.o

Why not do it yourself then, to prove it is as easy as you claim it is to do.

A somewhat fatuous comment given it inherently undermines any commercial capability or skill of Prusa themselves - ie if you'd like a larger engine on your car, it's easy enough for Ford to make one, but why don't you just build a car yourself????

Yes, your comments are completely fatuous, but that does not stop you from making them.

The question wasn't meant to mock you even though you decided you wanted to be mocked. It was an honest question.  

 He still claim it's easy karma while claiming you're not capable of doing it. Interesting.

You can't do it but you say it's easy. Obviously not easy.

 But rather than bicker back-and-forth about you saying it's easy for other people to do what you can't do, why don't we just return to the discussion about how the I3 technology is not sufficiently up to the task and it must be done a different way.

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Posted by: gary.s4

I have been working with the Sidewinder X1 as well, soon will have 3 of them, the stock extruder setup is where I am focusing and will replace the volcano-titan setup with a standard BMG-E3Don the second machine and dedicate the 3rd to carbon fiber, not sure what that will look like.. yet.   Again, it is a good machine, great cost-performance and a bit better stability than the CR10S-Pro, but there is not a great deal better print quality.. It is definitely more about the cost difference and the direct-drive vs the bowden, more material capability and less of the bowden type problems. But it is also an I3 derivative is has a very heavy bed..

Are you saying the sidewinder is superior to CR-10S Pro?  That is contrary to what I have read online.  

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

I think this is a matter of  choice really. There are things about both I do not like..

Sidewinder ribbon cables seem to raise havoc with users, not me personally but have read of many problems.. The EEPROM comes edit-disabled so you have to re-flash (once) including opening up the bottom and my machine required the TFT disconnect, not all do, in order to a simple extruder calibration (make EEPROM writeable). I have no wish to  modify my Slicer start gcode for each slicer (a workaround to prevent re-flash). You also have to re-flash if you want live-adjust.. I think Artillery should have provided both stock, not all agree.

The CR10S-Pro requires a re-flash in order to prevent thermal runaway. I hate the CR10S-Pro filament spool.. If I wasn't getting rid of it, I would change it.. This thing moans and groans like an adolescent.. Changing filament is a pain in the butt due to the tubing, that will hopefully change a bit for the better when I get the Cap tubing in.. but the software on the Sidewinder is better here.. Just unload and load.. and the direct drive Titan shortens the path .. Changing filament on a bowden is always a pain to me.

I changed the CR10 stock bed to the Tempered Glass Plate as the stock plate was useless in my view, that was an additional cost. The Sidewinder comes with the treated glass bed and it works a treat, PLA anyway.. 

The advantage breakdown for me..

Cost (today)                 370 Euro     v      490 Euro

Extruder                      Titan-Volcano       v       Bowden

As far as print quality they are about the same to me .. with PLA.. I have not yet tried anything else on them but believe the Sidewinder will win that one due to the direct drive.. less problems with retraction.

I think bottom line, it is a personal choice.. You vote with your wallet , and I bought more X1s, and at that price I can play with the extruder set-ups. I am still having problems with the stringing on the volcano, but avoid the situations where that would create a printing problem. 

As of today, I have a couple of hundred hours on each printer .. and as said have only used PLA as yet.. I doubt I will ever use PETG on the CR10, but will shortly on the Sidewinder.. Thats about all I can say at this point ..

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Posted by: charles.h13

Posted by: Tim

What are the diameters of the linear bearing rods on the CR10 X and Y axis?

I get you point, but just because you increase the size of the rods does not make it a redesign.  It would simple be an upscale.  

The Mega Prusa project is 300x300 and uses 12mm rods.  

Another reality shift -  the thinking that doubling size has no impact on things like mass, inertia, and power required to drive that mass around.  You don't just change a number from 8 to 12 and ignore what that means.  6 mm belts are marginal for the 200 mm Prusa, 8 mm rods are marginal, the 40 Nm torque motors are marginal.  Double the size of everything and now your into an entirely new class of materials and parts. 

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Posted by: Tim

Posted by: charles.h13

Posted by: Tim

What are the diameters of the linear bearing rods on the CR10 X and Y axis?

I get you point, but just because you increase the size of the rods does not make it a redesign.  It would simple be an upscale.  

The Mega Prusa project is 300x300 and uses 12mm rods.  

Another reality shift -  the thinking that doubling size has no impact on things like mass, inertia, and power required to drive that mass around.  You don't just change a number from 8 to 12 and ignore what that means.  6 mm belts are marginal for the 200 mm Prusa, 8 mm rods are marginal, the 40 Nm torque motors are marginal.  Double the size of everything and now your into an entirely new class of materials and parts. 

 

And electronics, since you now need to redesign to handle the current for the beefier motors and larger heat bed...

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

charles .. currently printing a fairly simple test on both machines .. 350 mm lamp stand using Prusament Galaxy Black .. Both machines very similar setups in terms of speed, infill, etc.. should finish up within 30 minutes of each other .. 18 hr prints .. will publish results tomorrow .... both slices using random start points ,, sliced on S3D .. roundish lamp stands .. so no place to hide seams .. 

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Thank you.  Is the pinda mechanical, capacitance, inductance?  

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Gary - when you have a chance, snap a photo of the X1 extruder from a couple of angles.   Thanks!

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

No pinda on the X1 .. no ABL .. which is fine with me.. I have leveled the bed manually a couple of times and it has held well. It has software to move to f points and adjust the wheels manually. You also need to re-flash to get the live z .. One of things I don't like vs .. the ABL on the CR10. The difference for me is the time it takes on the CR10 .. feels like minutes and that annoys me a bit .. again just me .. I like hitting go and it actually starts the print .. but probably  way to disable that on the CR10 .. never checked.

The current test prints appear to be favoring the CR10 .. getting zits on the X1 with random start points, but not seeing any zits on the CR10 with same random start .. interesting .. that might actually be important to me ..

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

The Titan style extruder .. The hobb gear is plastic so don't expect it to last long, already have a hardened steel in stock so expect to replace it soon.. 

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

LINK TO : MEDIA FILE

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

The filament teeth portion look metallic; but you're saying the teeth in contact with the filament are some type of plastic?

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

No.. the gear in contact with the filament is metal .. It is the larger gear that is in contact with the MK8 gear on the stepper that appears to be plastic. I did not check the MK8 gear on the stepper yet, a long print is running right now.. but will verify both this eve when the print ends..

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

The motor gear is Brass, which meshes with the nylon gear.

this is common practice. 

regards Joan

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

13 or so hours in on both .. 5 hours more to go ..Both look very good .. Only difference probably down to  retraction settings on the different extruder types, but not going to waste time adjusting  unless I have to ..

RE: 400 x 400 Prusa Printer?

Posted by: gary.s4

13 or so hours in on both .. 5 hours more to go ..Both look very good .. Only difference probably down to  retraction settings on the different extruder types, but not going to waste time adjusting  unless I have to ..

What are you printing?